destruction of unions

[flythere]

In reference to San Jose,

Don't get me wrong, I think cops and firefighters do one hell of a job, and they deserved to be compensated, but some of these numbers are a little high! You be the judge!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ent-at-50-threatens-solvency-muni-credit.html

http://www.sanjoseinside.com/news/e...2011_poliice_fire_mayor_city_manager_council/


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57392812/calif-city-seeks-to-escape-soaring-pension-costs/

Can anybody here say that is reasonable given todays hard times? Nobody wants to take their retirements away, simply renegotiate to a lower rate, so the city/state can get it's finances back in order!!

 

[shroomwell]

Imagine if the United CEO, was also the lawyer for the ALPA MEC, and go that job due the support of ALPA. That is a huge conflict of interest in a bargaining situation. This exactly what happens in public sector unions. The unions use their power and money to buy off the politicians on the other side of the bargaining table. Then it is the taxpayer who get hosed. Now the unions get big raises and the politicians use those raises to justify more raises for themselves. Rinse and repeat and that is how you get the situation we are in today.

Go check any local election and see the primary backers for the candidates. On both sides the D's and R's are receiving money from the public unions. The most pernicious are the public safety unions. They will play both sides to guarantee a positive outcome for themselves. That is how you end up with millionaire police and firemen throughout the country.

 

[shroomwell]

Try this website out for a dose of reality.

http://www.calculateyourpublicpension.com/CA/


The money to pay these pensions has to come from somewhere. Look in your wallet because that is were it is coming form.

 

[pilotyip]

Try this website out for a dose of reality.

http://www.calculateyourpublicpension.com/CA/


The money to pay these pensions has to come from somewhere. Look in your wallet because that is were it is coming form.

Hey! stop that this is FI, we do not deal in reality on this site

 

[dragontamer]

Right on Pilotyip & FLYTHERE:beer:

By the way, while some here are applauding the 'victory' against public unions, anyone bothered to ask what pay and benefits concessions those politicians who have led the charge against the unions have taken?

http://paul.senate.gov/?p=news&id=418

There you go Realityman. Admittedly, there aren't many of them on either side--but differences are there. Vote for an entitlement, "not my fault", the man's got me down candidate or vote for guys who are favoring responsible, live within your means, look to yourself first candidates.

Whatever happened to Nancy Pelosi's private 757?

 

[MECH]

What I find ironic is that the majority of people on this site are either excited about Delta's TA or don't think its enough.

But who is going to pay those wages? The traveling public. I bet if you went on any travel blog 90% of the people on it, would think pilots are over paid. Also they would gladly let the pilots take a pay cut so they could have lower fares!

Do we want to force the same on policemen, firemen, ATC, Teachers...

These are the very people that can afford to fly on our airplanes (this especially true at Southwest/Jetblue). Why would we want to slash their pay. It would also hurt us.

So what is a reasonable solution?

 

[imacdog]

What I find ironic is that the majority of people on this site are either excited about Delta's TA or don't think its enough.

But who is going to pay those wages? The traveling public. I bet if you went on any travel blog 90% of the people on it, would think pilots are over paid. Also they would gladly let the pilots take a pay cut so they could have lower fares!

Do we want to force the same on policemen, firemen, ATC, Teachers...

These are the very people that can afford to fly on our airplanes (this especially true at Southwest/Jetblue). Why would we want to slash their pay. It would also hurt us.

So what is a reasonable solution?

What a stupid argument. If the traveling public decides that Delta is paying their employees too much and are charging too much for their product, they can take their business somewhere else. Want to tell me how this is applicable to taxpayer-funded public employees?

 

[realityman]

Right on Pilotyip & FLYTHERE:beer:





http://paul.senate.gov/?p=news&id=418

There you go Realityman. Admittedly, there aren't many of them on either side--but differences are there. Vote for an entitlement, "not my fault", the man's got me down candidate or vote for guys who are favoring responsible, live within your means, look to yourself first candidates.

Whatever happened to Nancy Pelosi's private 757?

That's great. I agree with your thinking. Wish there were more like him to vote for.
I just get a kick out of the folks who say they're sending money to governor Walker to support his actions against the public unions, but don't bother to ask him what cuts he's making to his own salary and benefits, as well as those to his staff.

In a way, the politicians are far worse than the public unions. At least the public unions have to make a show of fighting for more money. The politicians just GIVE themselves whatever they want. And people actually send them additional money. Interesting stuff.

The teacher's unions are an interesting study in contradictions. As a parent, I want the best teachers available to be teaching my kids. Good pay and benefits will bring out the best. On the other hand, if there is a bad teacher not doing a good job, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to get rid of them thanks to the union. Also, I don't like my taxes going up.

The question is, what's the best answer? Many here seem to think having laws made that neuter the unions is the best solution. I just don't agree. Especially since I just don't see it ending with public unions. Precedent has been set. It'll end up being very bad for the private sector unions.

What's even more interesting to me, is that private sector companies have found very effective ways of fighting unions. There are other companies who have made an entire business out of busting unions. I'm not necessarily 'for' these union busters. Just pointing out that there are tactics that can be employed to mitigate many of a union's demands. So how hard do any of our government people really try? How hard have they really fought the unions in the past? Or is there possibly a bigger agenda involved with the way they're handling things now?

These new laws are BS, and is just a way of positioning things to 'help out' their corporate buddies when the politicos decide they need to 'do something' about those greedy private sector unions who are sucking the profits out of their companies. How un-American of us union members!

 

[pilotyip]

What I find ironic is that the majority of people on this site are either excited about Delta's TA or don't think its enough.

But who is going to pay those wages? The traveling public. I bet if you went on any travel blog 90% of the people on it, would think pilots are over paid. Also they would gladly let the pilots take a pay cut so they could have lower fares!

Do we want to force the same on policemen, firemen, ATC, Teachers...

These are the very people that can afford to fly on our airplanes (this especially true at Southwest/Jetblue). Why would we want to slash their pay. It would also hurt us.

So what is a reasonable solution?

How about private contractors for gov't work, have to compete to offer the best value. No more 20 year 90% retirements, where it is based upon your last year's wages and everyone get to be Fire Chief at $150K/yr for their last year, with unlimited cola and medical. That would be a start.

BTW Some of these guys retiring age age 40 from a city here near Detroit, collect full pension and thne get hired as new hire in another gov't depart and take home $150K+/yr. The city is about to file for BK and get a Emergency Manager with dictatorial powers to balance the budget.

 

[livin'thesim]

I would be willing to let public employees unionize if they can be forced to compete with other labor groups.

This is a decisive win for the battered taxpayer and working man.

PUBLIC EMPLOYEES HAVE A CARTEL, not a union.

They are not us, nor are they even like us.