destruction of unions

[pilotyip]

The CEO compensation bit is just a red herring. You are basically saying that until the private sector changes, you are okay with the public unions raping and plundering the municipal treasuries.

(old post but fits) I saw an article in ATW in 2001 that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1% raise. (for a $100K per year pilot that would be $3/wk increase in take home) Boy that raise would really make the pilot group happy.

Agreed that is called leadership, which is missing in most cases. But the 20%CEO pay cut by it self would mean nothing in saving the company, but it was well received by those also making a sacrifice.

More executive cokk sucking for yip. Very predictable.

ha ha very funny, sounds like jealousy, but then again this is FI were calling is the sign of superiority.

 

[Downwind]

Close, but not quite.

Unions are for workers who might be perceived by management to be unskilled drones. Don't forget how replaceable management thinks you are as a pilot.

You might be the best airline pilot in the world, but good luck getting management to actually act on that, even if they agreed. They will make a decision based on the dollars 99% of the time.

Your sentiment is valid, but it would probably be disastrous to de-unionize.

But doesn't the union prove your point? They know we can't and rarely leave because of our seniority system. If you could walk with two weeks notice taking your type and currency with you would they be so quick to tell you to go pound sand?

 

[Smarta$$]

But doesn't the union prove your point? They know we can't and rarely leave because of our seniority system. If you could walk with two weeks notice taking your type and currency with you would they be so quick to tell you to go pound sand?

Well, who says the next airline has to hire you? If they have 2 applicants for one job, one with a high seniority number and high salary requirement, and someone that is new to the 121 world, with the minimum requirements, but would accept 1/3 of the pay?

They don't HAVE to hire you just because you quit airline ABC with seniority...

Its a bad idea. We are labor, nothing more. Sorry to burst your bubble, you're not management or executive level. You are part number 3432345. Nothing more.

 

[igneousy2]

But doesn't the union prove your point? They know we can't and rarely leave because of our seniority system. If you could walk with two weeks notice taking your type and currency with you would they be so quick to tell you to go pound sand?

That won't work in our occupation because we have no way to back up what we're worth. We would always be in competition with some young kid with shiny new jet syndrome. We have not convinced the customers that our experience matters. If anything we have done more to convince them that it doesn't. And if the customers aren't convinced that it matters...then no management will ever pay for it.

Pilots as a group has gotten on managements side in saying things like "flying is safe", "total time doesn't matter", "if they passed the training and check-rides then all must be okay"...so if all of these things are true, how do we measure what we're worth. I don't have any violations or accidents?...okay, but so do you and 99% of the pilots out there.

Just look on FI on all the posts concerning qualification...for every measure of our qualification you have a large number of pilots that don't think it matters...total time, doesn't matter...military/civilian, doesn't matter...4 year degree no 4 year degree...doesn't matter...we fly wide-bodies-doesn't matter...we fly jets-doesn't matter...we fly approaches to CAT I minimus in some crazy terrain in some insane weather-doesn't matter you are just following the magenta line.

A salesman has his sales figures, a manager has some program he ran that generated X-revenue or saved X-dollars, a riveter can do so many rivets an hour, a welder can weld so many feet an hour,

So for a pilot if not seniority...then what?

 

[livin'thesim]

But doesn't the union prove your point? They know we can't and rarely leave because of our seniority system. If you could walk with two weeks notice taking your type and currency with you would they be so quick to tell you to go pound sand?

Sort of.

The problem is steeply-scaled longevity pay more than it is seniority.

Many pilots would change airlines and accept being junior again as long as they could make a livable wage that is not an insult to their professionalism.

There is no logical reason (other than tradition) for wage scales to skew so steeply with longevity. Steep pay scale increases started so that the senior could be subsidized by the junior. Just a land grab, really.

The union is both curse and blessing, for sure.

 

[SIG600]

Enjoy paying $6500 annually for property taxes for a modest home? move to WI. Public unions are way out of line with the private sector, its disgusting. Go Walker, get er done

This. Once I educated myself on just what a WI citizen is paying in taxes, I was shocked. Look up what a single family making $100K/year living in a $250K house is paying a year in just state and property taxes. It's staggering. I'd be pretty miffed too.

 

[Smarta$$]

Public employees, even those without a union usually get pensions. My father in law is a city employee, no union, gets a pension.

How about Scott Walker? Does he get a pension? How about all those Republican politicians? Are they getting a tax payer funded pension? Are they refusing them and paying back the tax payer? I think I know the answer, and it is pure hypocrisy.

But, they have you all looking at the public union carrot, and get you to ignore all of the problems they have caused (or just keep you from knowing about them through the controlled message of right wing media).

I was flipping back and fourth yesterday between MSNBC and Fox (you know, getting a wider range of information) and observed something I have seen before. Romney and Obama had dueling speaches about 15 minutes apart (no overlap).

Fox and MSNBC played all of Romney's speach, but wouldn't you know, Fox only played a few minutes of Obama's speach. That's "balance" for ya.

 

[Downwind]

Fox and MSNBC played all of Romney's speach, but wouldn't you know, Fox only played a few minutes of Obama's speach. That's "balance" for ya.

That's because a few minutes is all normal people can take of that narcissistic grape ape banging coke head.

 

[Smarta$$]

Wow. Just Wow.

 

[N311HK]

Public employees, even those without a union usually get pensions. My father in law is a city employee, no union, gets a pension.

How about Scott Walker? Does he get a pension? How about all those Republican politicians? Are they getting a tax payer funded pension? Are they refusing them and paying back the tax payer? I think I know the answer, and it is pure hypocrisy.

But, they have you all looking at the public union carrot, and get you to ignore all of the problems they have caused (or just keep you from knowing about them through the controlled message of right wing media).

I was flipping back and fourth yesterday between MSNBC and Fox (you know, getting a wider range of information) and observed something I have seen before. Romney and Obama had dueling speaches about 15 minutes apart (no overlap).

Fox and MSNBC played all of Romney's speach, but wouldn't you know, Fox only played a few minutes of Obama's speach. That's "balance" for ya.

Agree,

Left or Right, we as middle class have been reduced to looking at our peers and saying "We don't have pensions, why should those who I pay taxes for have them?" But what we should be asking why we don't all have pensions. The cycle will not be complete until the rich have all the money. I understand the frustration of paying taxes and seeing them wasted.