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depth perception

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rjl2001

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2003
Posts
41
hey, i have a quick question about depth perception. when i took a flight physical for the coast guard, they said my depth perception wasn't good enough for rescue swimmer. then i just saw a navy flight surgeon today who said i "have no depth perception" after he gave me the test with the circles, and the one with the three bars. so my life long dream of flying in the military is shot, but what about civilian? i've done a little flying and never seem to have a problem with my depth perception. but is depth perception part of any of the FAA flight physicals? i would like to try to fly corporate jets for a living eventually and wanted to make sure i'd still have a shot at that. thanks
 
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I'm not a doctor, not do I play one on TV, but....

I seem to recall that my brother once had depth perception problems, and he was given a series of eye exercises by his optomotrist to fix the problem.

Which leads me to believe that depth perception may be a problem that can be fixed through "training" of the eye.

Keep looking into this. You may have some options.

LAXSaabdude.
 
Eye exam

I agree that from the civilian standpoint you might have some options. Military requirements are sometimes more strict when compared to civilian. Go to your civilian optometrist for a thorough exam and get his/her opinion before you go forward. (Based on previous experiences, I would never go to an ophthalmologist for an eye exam, but that's just me.) After all, it is an FAA medical that you will need to fly civilian. www.leftseat.com is an excellent website on FAA medicals.

Good luck with your plans.
 
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I haven't any either. Besides making me a less than stellar ball player, combined with my lacking of athletic aptitude in general, it has never inhibited me from doing anything practical. I have held a first class medical for quite a few years now and have yet to even have it mentioned or tested at any medical exam. Depth perception does not exist beyond about 50 feet so the appication in flying is very limited. The military is probably pickier about it because it might, I say MIGHT, make learning close formation flying a little more challenging. I have never tried it so I don't know. Anyhoo, don't sweat it. If you don't have any and have made it this far than it shouldn't be a problem now. I have a friend who was denied his navy medical because he couldn't cross his eyes enough. Whatever. Welcome to the civi side of life!!!
 
thanks guys, i'm overseas and don't have a far/aim handy or else i would check that for info on the faa physicals. hey if there are any Army Aviatiors in here, are they less strict as far as depth perception or more likely to give a waiver.
 
flint4xx said:
I don't think depth perception is tested on an FAA medical. Read FAR 67. (I think it's 67)

The winner. All that is required to pass the vision portion of a first class flight physical is vision that is correctable to 20/20 if I remember correctly.
 
The whole section for First Class...

Section 67.103: Eye.
Eye standards for a first-class airman medical certificate are:

(a) Distant visual acuity of 20/20 or better in each eye separately, with or without corrective lenses. If corrective lenses (spectacles or contact lenses) are necessary for 20/20 vision, the person may be eligible only on the condition that corrective lenses are worn while exercising the privileges of an airman certificate.

(b) Near vision of 20/40 or better, Snellen equivalent, at 16 inches in each eye separately, with or without corrective lenses. If age 50 or older, near vision of 20/40 or better, Snellen equivalent, at both 16 inches and 32 inches in each eye separately, with or without corrective lenses.

(c) Ability to perceive those colors necessary for the safe performance of airman duties.

(d) Normal fields of vision.

(e) No acute or chronic pathological condition of either eye or adnexa that interferes with the proper function of an eye, that may reasonably be expected to progress to that degree, or that may reasonably be expected to be aggravated by flying.

(f) Bifoveal fixation and vergence-phoria relationship sufficient to prevent a break in fusion under conditions that may reasonably be expected to occur in performing airman duties. Tests for the factors named in this paragraph are not required except for persons found to have more than 1 prism diopter of hyperphoria, 6 prism diopters of esophoria, or 6 prism diopters of exophoria. If any of these values are exceeded, the Federal Air Surgeon may require the person to be examined by a qualified eye specialist to determine if there is bifoveal fixation and an adequate vergence-phoria relationship. However, if otherwise eligible, the person is issued a medical certificate pending the results of the examination.
 
ShawnC said:
The winner. All that is required to pass the vision portion of a first class flight physical is vision that is correctable to 20/20 if I remember correctly.

Uhhh, no, that is not true at all. You also have to be able to distinguish colors (remember those colored dots with the numbers ?) and have normal field of vision. You are also tested for hyperphoria, exophoria and esophoria. These have to do with where your eyes point relative to each other and are related to depth perception. You recall the slide in the eye test where you are asked which object seems to be closest to you? that tests depth perception directly.


Now having said that, I know of persons with only one eye were able to get second class (and possibly first class) medicals. Obviously a person with one eye has no depth perception, so it is not an absolute disqualifier, but you may have to wade through some red tape.
 
A Squared said:
Uhhh, no, that is not true at all. You also have to be able to distinguish colors (remember those colored dots with the numbers ?) and have normal field of vision. You are also tested for hyperphoria, exophoria and esophoria. These have to do with where your eyes point relative to each other and are related to depth perception. You recall the slide in the eye test where you are asked which object seems to be closest to you? that tests depth perception directly.


Now having said that, I know of persons with only one eye were able to get second class (and possibly first class) medicals. Obviously a person with one eye has no depth perception, so it is not an absolute disqualifier, but you may have to wade through some red tape.

I forgot about the color blindness test. But I don't remember any of the other tests you mentioned, mine was read the entire chart top to bottom with both eyes.

Now different chart, read the bottom two lines with one eye, another chart, different eye read the bottom two lines. And that was it.

Maybe it's something age related like the EKG?
 
here's the thing about that depth deception test with the rings;

a new nurse once gave me that test and I totally flunked. then an experienced eye doc gave me a re test and he said; hold the card right up to your nose - I did and passed easily ! (and it's not cheating )
 
One-eyed pilots

A Squared said:
I know of persons with only one eye were able to get second class (and possibly first class) medicals. Obviously a person with one eye has no depth perception, so it is not an absolute disqualifier, but you may have to wade through some red tape.
Wiley Post is a good example, though I doubt the red tape in the twenties was as bad as it is now. :rolleyes:
 
What is the test where you have to tell were the to lines intersect? Example, you look into the eye machine and the doctor will ask what number the two lines intersect at. One line is horizontal, the other is vertical. If you look through just your right eye, you will see only the vertical line, if you look through your left eye you will see the horizontal line. What you need to do is use both eyes to tell what number they intersect at. I have always had a problem with depth perception, and I do have a hard time with this test. I cant see both lines at the same time, so I have to guesstimate. I always pass, but I do struggle.
 
"What is the test where you have to tell were the to lines intersect? "

I think that what you described is the hyperphoria test
 
Stifler's Mom said:
My depth perception is fine, and my landings still suck. Go figure. ;)

My landings got alot better when I learned to flare before you hit the ground.
 
Somewhat lengthy, but worth the time...

rjl2001:

While I am not a doctor, here's the "skinny" on depth perception, FAR 67.103 (f), the test with the lines that cross, and the requirements to hold a first class medical certificate... based on my opinion and experiences.

First of all, I'll impart some of my personal history with this issue. That way you know that I've, "Been there, done that." I was born with strabismus (congenital esotrophia or crossed eyes), and it was so bad that the doctors told my parents that I'd likely lose most of my vision in the eye that was less favored (we all favor one eye over the other.) They were also told that I'd never see very well and will likely need an eye-patch and glasses all my life. This prognosis was provided by the Air Force doctors at the AFB where my father was stationed. Not willing to accept these findings, my parents went to a local pediatric eye doctor at a civilian regional hospital. He was Dr. Sherwood Maddux of Macon, GA. (I remember him becaue I owe my career to this guy.) His solution was to use corrective surgery to reconnect the connective tissues that align the eyes. That was in the early 1970s and the procedure had been around for about 20 years or so.

After three surgeries (1972 to 1973), I no longer have strabismus and my vision is perfectly fine in both eyes... no corrective lenses. However, in the early 1990s I was disqualified from military flying simply because I had the surgery in the first place, and they gave me the same silly stereo-vision test with the housefly wings and sets of dots. Remember it's the military flight surgeon's job to say, "No." They don't want to spend all that money training someone only for that person to have a medical problem... if you're a senator's son, then that might be different. So before I spent a lot of my own money on flight training, I got a comprehensive eye exam from a civilian doc. He spent a good hour or so giving me all kinds of different tests to check for depth perception, stereo-vision, and peripheral visual fields in addition to acuity and color tests. He basically said my vision, depth perception and stereopsis was fine and didn't see any reason why the FAA wouldn't issue a medical certificate (he wasn't an FAA doc, but was familiar with what was required by the FAA.) However, he did note that I have a few (2 or 3) "prism diopters" of esophoria (eyes cross inward), but he didn't think it would be disqualifying. In fact, the FAA allows up to 6 prism diopters of esophoria (eyes cross inward) or exophoria (eyes diverge outward) and 1 prism diopter of hyperphoria (eyes deviate vertically.)

When I first applied for a First class medical, I disclosed my history to the FAA, passes the physcial, and have yet to hear a word from anyone in Oklahoma City regarding the issue. I have held a first class medical for over 10 years and have never encountered a problem with the FAA or the tests given by the AMEs I've gone to. Most AMEs are interested when they see item "d" checked on the application and they'll ask about it, but that's about it. None of the airlines I've worked for considered it an issue either. In fact, when I did the UAL medical in 2000, they saw it on my paperwork, gave me the standard stereo-vision test, and never said another word about it. I passed the medical and worked at United for 8 months, but that's another story.

Now about FAR 67: The key here is in 67.103 paragraph "f." The requirement is that you have adequate stereo-vision and that you don't see double (that's the "breaks in fusion" part of the paragraph) when performing normal airman duties. The assumption is that if you have adequate stereo-vision, then you should have adequate depth-perception. Your brain works wonders and does a lot to compensate for any problems you might have with not possessing 100% depth perception. Motion of objects plays a big role in the compensation done by the brain. Most tests given for depth perception consist of static objects on a flat screen or paper. Your brain is perfectly capable of determining depth simply by observing the motion of objects in front of you (real or relative motion.) If you're walking down a path in the woods, you'll notice the trees that are closer appear to move by more quickly than the trees in the distance... there's your depth perception. Or try this, close one eye and rock your head back and forth... does the relative motion of objects in the room provide depth clues? The point is, the test administered by the AMEs have limitations. There are many other factors which provide for depth perception.

The test with the lines (usually in the form of a musical note and a series of numbers) is checking for esophoria, exophoria, and hyperphoria. The vertical line is checking for the first two and the horizontal line is checking for hyperphoria. I covered these earlier, but unless you have more than the values described in 67.103 (f) you won't need further testing. If you exceed those values, then the FAA will likely require further testing by an eye specialist. To get a first class medical certificate you may have to get corrective lenses to adjust any deviations. Then you have to show your vision is normal with no "breaks in fusion" or double vision, and the FAA will likely issue you a certificate with a limitation requiring you to wear your glasses while flying (not a big deal.) This late in your life, the surgical procedure that I described is probably not advised. That procedure works best for children under age two. Adults typically get best results with corrective lenses.

The bottom line is: don't let anyone tell you that you cannot have a flying career because of this. If I'd stopped after listening to the USAF docs, then I wouldn't be flying for a major air carrier today. You may not become "Mav" or "Iceman" or "Buck Rogers" or whatever :rolleyes: but you can still have a very rewarding career flying airplanes or helicopters. Definitely look into Army flying. Just because one service says "no" doesn't mean the other will. I have flown with several guys at the airlines who flew helos in the Army after being told no by the AF and Navy. They ended up flying both rotary and fixed wing aircraft in the Army and had a great time doing it. (The Army has C-12s aka Beech King Airs)

Anyway, here are some interesting links to look at and good luck with your career!! :cool:

http://www.children-special-needs.org/

http://www.strabismus.org/

http://www.vision3d.com/stereo.html
 

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