Demo Pilot Positions

[doublepsych]

I know that there is some info in other threads, but one thing that I haven't seen is any pay info for a demo pilot position with one of the large mfgs. Does anyone have ballpark pay info that they can share for Raytheon Cessna, etc.? And are these positions worth living in ICT for? Thanks for the info...

 

[G100driver]

It seems to may that they never pay as well as the 91 flight departments. They offer security.

My friends at Dassault seem to be VERY busy, but well taken care of.

These jobs are typically very hard to get and I would suggest that you make friends with someone with Raython.

 

[tej823]

Worked for a manufacturer for 11+ years as demo pilot, delivery, training, etc. We negotiated for quite a while to get the pay to the level of the people we were training.

Generally the job required a lot of time away..short notice, no notice changes to schedule and job assignments. Being flexible and willing to go the extra mile will get you far.

Getting in the door may require some close networking with people on the inside. We often looked to our customers for pilots (people we had trained) as a source for demo/delivery crews.

 

[AA717driver]

The really plum jobs are at DF, BBD and GLF. In demo-ing, you meet people who are buying (and will be hiring for...wink, wink) nice planes with big paychecks.

So you don't make a whole lot demo-ing your plane. At your next job, you will.TC

 

[doublepsych]

Thanks for the info in the previous posts. Can anyone take a swag at some cold hard pay numbers?

 

[G100driver]

Thanks for the info in the previous posts. Can anyone take a swag at some cold hard pay numbers?

Friend at DFJ for 2 years now just making 6 figures. Figure the type of equiptment he is flying and it is about 80% pay parity. Hope this helps give you a ballpark. Good consistant work if you can get it. All the above post were dead on with respect to lifestyle.

 

[Computer Geek]

The job at BBD sux, plain and simple. There has been a complete change in the large airplane dept in the last year. Only 1 (line) pilot left has more than 8 months in the department.

1) Pay is below standard
2) Schedule is 9 days off a month 5 hard / 4 floating.
3) Management is incompetent.

Its a good stepping stone to a better gig. But that is ALL.

CG

The bonus (for the Demo Group Pilots) is based on number of aircraft sold. Last years record sales = 2 weeks pay.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

The job at BBD sux, plain and simple. There has been a complete change in the large airplane dept in the last year. Only 1 (line) pilot left has more than 8 months in the department.

1) Pay is below standard
2) Schedule is 9 days off a month 5 hard / 4 floating.
3) Management is incompetent.

Its a good stepping stone to a better gig. But that is ALL.

CG

I have heard exactly that.

 

[400A]

Raytheon guys are currently on a 6 on 4 off schedule. Pay seems in line. pretty good when they get the year end bonus checks.

Lots of international.

Premiere guys have to deal with owner operators...YUK

 

[BoilerUP]

From the little bit I've heard, Raytheon was thin on pilots for a while a few months back, dunno about now but they seemed to waive OpsSpecs and move days off quite often to accomodate a last minute trip or a pushy salesmen. It also sounded like their pilots flew their tails off and IMO weren't paid commisurate with the equipment, especially considering lack of hard schedule, moving in days off and ops tempo. Beats the average regional airline/135 gig though! Sounded like most started on the pistons and the 1900 shuttle, then transitioned to the King Airs and Premier, then from there the Hawker family.

I'm not sure I'd want to deal with salesmen, owner/operators might not be so bad in comparision. The few pilots I've met from there were very cool and seemed to enjoy their jobs, and I think at least one has recently moved on to bigger, better paying things. FWIW, they also seem partial to UND grads.

I applied for their flying internship a while back but wasn't selected, but I've had my resume on Racjobs for the Demo Pilot positions for some time now.

 

[PC12Cowboy]

Pilatus?????

 

[snow-back]

The job at BBD sux, plain and simple. There has been a complete change in the large airplane dept in the last year. Only 1 (line) pilot left has more than 8 months in the department.

1) Pay is below standard
2) Schedule is 9 days off a month 5 hard / 4 floating.
3) Management is incompetent.

Its a good stepping stone to a better gig. But that is ALL.

CG

The bonus (for the Demo Group Pilots) is based on number of aircraft sold. Last years record sales = 2 weeks pay.

What's BBD? Is that Bombardier?

 

[GVFlyer]

In Gulfstream Flight Test average pay is about a buck and a quarter and tops out at around $155k. Expect to work five days a week and one weekend a month.

Demo gets less. The department has recently changed their hiring practices bringing new hires in through the AirBorne Product Support G100 and progressing them through the Israeli Aircraft Industries aircraft to the Gulfstreams on a merit basis. In Demo, you get one day off for every day that you are gone minus one day. If you have nothing to do you are not expected to do it at work. Expect to start just above $70K. Demo compensation maxes out at about $154K for those in leadership roles.

Gulfstream offers a defined benefit pension plan, 401K plan with company match, an incentive award program and an excellent health care plan supplemented with an on premises health clinic.

In practice military pilots are preferred for both departments although experience and professionalism can offset that requirement. Leadership is Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy test pilots with an Army TP ascendant.

The Gulfstream Flight Department is a great place to gain knowledge and experience about aviation from a rather august body of pilots which includes a former Presidential pilot, a Vice Presidential pilot, the Chief Test Pilot B-1 Bomber, the Chief Test Pilot B-2 Bomber, the former Chief Pilot Atlas Airlines, Test Pilots who have taught at both Edwards TPS and the Naval Test Pilot School at Paxtuxent River, an Edwards Experimental Test Pilot who is also an aeronautical engineer, an A&P and an Inspector (there's an aeronautical engineer in Demo, too); a Space Shuttle Simulator pilot and one guy who has 542 hours in the Space Shuttle and two landings (he is given grief because he never got current). The Chief Test pilot is also a PPE which helps him to rate his pilots.

Demo has recently been inundated with applications from JetBlue and Delta pilots.

Good luck!

GV

 

[snow-back]

In Gulfstream Flight Test average pay is about a buck and a quarter and tops out at around $155k. Expect to work five days a week and one weekend a month.

Demo gets less. The department has recently changed their hiring practices bringing new hires in through the AirBorne Product Support G100 and progressing them through the Israeli Aircraft Industries aircraft to the Gulfstreams on a merit basis. In Demo, you get one day off for every day that you are gone minus one day. If you have nothing to do you are not expected to do it at work. Expect to start just above $70K. Demo compensation maxes out at about $154K for those in leadership roles.

Gulfstream offers a defined benefit pension plan, 401K plan with company match, an incentive award program and an excellent health care plan supplemented with an on premises health clinic.

In practice military pilots are preferred for both departments although experience and professionalism can offset that requirement. Leadership is Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy test pilots with an Army TP ascendant.

The Gulfstream Flight Department is a great place to gain knowledge and experience about aviation from a rather august body of pilots which includes a former Presidential pilot, a Vice Presidential pilot, the Chief Test Pilot B-1 Bomber, the Chief Test Pilot B-2 Bomber, the former Chief Pilot Atlas Airlines, Test Pilots who have taught at both Edwards TPS and the Naval Test Pilot School at Paxtuxent River, an Edwards Experimental Test Pilot who is also an aeronautical engineer, an A&P and an Inspector (there's an aeronautical engineer in Demo, too); a Space Shuttle Simulator pilot and one guy who has 542 hours in the Space Shuttle and two landings (he is given grief because he never got current). The Chief Test pilot is also a PPE which helps him to rate his pilots.

Demo has recently been inundated with applications from JetBlue and Delta pilots.

Good luck!

GV

GV,
Does working at Gulfstream offer a decent family life. I understand you work a lot there, but do you get to spend a fair number of nights at home. I know APS is a lot of short notice and on call and demo sometimes requires long trips, but what kind of average nights home per month is common? Is it common for Airborne Product Support guys to do demo or test flight as copilots or is it all kept seperate? People I've talked with have all loved working there. Feel free to PM if you wish. Thanks.

SB

 

[GVFlyer]

GV,
Does working at Gulfstream offer a decent family life. I understand you work a lot there, but do you get to spend a fair number of nights at home. I know APS is a lot of short notice and on call and demo sometimes requires long trips, but what kind of average nights home per month is common?

Gulfstream offers an excellent family life - even has family picnics. In Flight Test you can be home or gone just about as much as you like. Be advised, however, that the Chief Test Pilot believes that everyone's work ethic needs improvement. The Demo guys seem to work about 12 - 14 days a month.

Is it common for Airborne Product Support guys to do demo or test flight as copilots or is it all kept seperate?

It is completely separate. Most of the test pilots don't even know all of the Demo pilots names. There is some good natured back and forth between the departments as when the demo guys came up with their own Tybee callsigns (the test pilots are assigned individual GulfTest callsigns) and the test pilots responded by publishing their own list of callsigns based on other local islands: Okatie, Daufuskie, Skidaway, Hilton Head, Talahi, Wilmington and so forth.

People I've talked with have all loved working there. Thanks.

SB

Yep. Most people only leave for better positions or significantly more compensation - VP Flight Ops Adam Aircraft, Chief Pilot positions at USAA/ Federal Mogul/Harpo, and Regional Sales Exec Gulfstream for example. Pre 9/11, pilots left Northwest and turned down Delta to work at Gulfstream, the last three pilots to leave for a major left in 1994 for FedEx. Three pilots have been dismissed, but found no difficulty in finding other positions.


GV

 

[snow-back]

GV,

Thanks. That just reinforces everything I've heard.

SB