Delta work rules

[roadrunner]

Got the conditional offer from DAL last week and was wondering if any of you guys could fill me in on some work rule specifics..
-How does reserve work? Can you bid on open trips as a reserve?
-How long can one expect to be on reserve on a narrowbody?
-How flexible is swapping/dropping, etc for lineholders?

 

[General Lee]

Got the conditional offer from DAL last week and was wondering if any of you guys could fill me in on some work rule specifics..
-How does reserve work? Can you bid on open trips as a reserve?
-How long can one expect to be on reserve on a narrowbody?
-How flexible is swapping/dropping, etc for lineholders?

You can bid for open trips as a reserve, but that doesn't mean you will get them. Crew Scheduling owns the trips. It is their job to try to give each reserve 69.9 hours a month if they can, and not let them get over 70 hours, which is the guarantee.(although many reserves do fly above 70 hours during the busy months) It saves the company money that way. Also, if you have 5 days left and someone else has 4 days left, it behooves scheduling to give the other person the open 4 day because you would still have one day left and probably be unuseable. They assign a "raw score or value" for each person and the one that has the number that they need usually gets the open trip. You can try for the trip, but it doesn't mean you will get it. As a reserve you will get a certain number of short call days where you will have to be ready for the call, and I think they are 12 hour periods, (with 8 24 hour short calls for INTL reserves). A lot of this may have changed, since I haven't been a reserve in years, but I think that is pretty close.

On the narrowbody, you may be a reserve for 6-12 months. For a widebody, expect a couple of years if you bid it early after you start as a newhire.

Swapping or dropping drips as a lineholder is easy, as long as there is enough coverage. If there aren't enough reserves, then it is tough to drop a trip. We do have the ability to swap trips on a special swap board, though. Being a line holder allows you a lot more flexibility.

Good luck and congrats.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

Got the conditional offer from DAL last week and was wondering if any of you guys could fill me in on some work rule specifics..
-How does reserve work? Can you bid on open trips as a reserve?
-How long can one expect to be on reserve on a narrowbody?
-How flexible is swapping/dropping, etc for lineholders?

Congrats!!!!

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Another semi-related question for Delta insiders:
About how long of a wait to be able to hold LAX? Years? Decades?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Probably less than a year if they actually start the mainline expansion out there.

 

[FDJ2]

Another semi-related question for Delta insiders:
About how long of a wait to be able to hold LAX? Years? Decades?

Thanks in advance.

LAX 767 F/O is relatively junior. For the sake of comparison, the most junior LAX 767 F/O is about 6400 on the list, the most junior NYC MD88 F/O is about 6800 on the list. I expect LAX will take about a year to hold.

FYI, it looks like ATL 767, ATL and NYC 767ER will be going to 1st year pilots. We have an advanced entitlement posted for these categories that went unfilled, pilots who complete their initial new hire training will most likely get several of those vacancies.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Thx for the info!

 

[michael707767]

You can bid for open trips as a reserve, but that doesn't mean you will get them. Crew Scheduling owns the trips. It is their job to try to give each reserve 69.9 hours a month if they can, and not let them get over 70 hours, which is the guarantee.(although many reserves do fly above 70 hours during the busy months) It saves the company money that way.

I want to disagree with Gen Lee a little bit. He is right to one extent, ideally, scheduling would prefer you not fly 80 hours if another reserve only has 60. If one guy flys 80, and another 60, then it costs them 150 hours of pay to cover 140 hours of flying (80 hours for one guy and the 70 gaurantee for the other)....vs each reserve getting 70 hours. However, don't think that scheduling goes out of their way to limit you to 70 hours. Of the 14 or so months I have spent on reserve in the last couple of years, I went above 70 in all but one of those months.

The contract is pretty specific on who gets trips. The average scheduler does not have the time to figure out how much flying you do or don't have. When a trip comes up, the computer has a list of who should get the trip, and they assign it to the top person on the list.

 

[Whataburger]

Are they keeping the current uniforms?

 

[General Lee]

Are they keeping the current uniforms?

Well, we don't get cool "Fonzi" leather jackets like you do, and we have to wear a hat, which most passengers expect from a pilot. But, we can wear the hat any way we want, and I wear mine like a French Baret.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

Got the conditional offer from DAL last week and was wondering if any of you guys could fill me in on some work rule specifics..
-How does reserve work? Can you bid on open trips as a reserve?
-How long can one expect to be on reserve on a narrowbody?
-How flexible is swapping/dropping, etc for lineholders?

Everybody has done a pretty good job of explaining, but I'll throw in a couple of cents as well.

Reserve will be dependant on your base. If you happen to live in the NE, you can bid NYC 88 f/o and be on reserve minimally, if at all. That being said, anything else short of ER fo will probably be 6 months or so IF hiring continues as planned.

As a reserve, you are a long call pilot, unless placed on short call by scheduling, which they can do 8 times a month. Short call lasts for 12 hours domestically, and 24 hours internationally, then you go back on long call. You have either 12 or 13 days off a month, and they are in groups. No 2 on 1 off 2 on 1 off stuff. Short call callout is defined as "promptly available". Generally, the consensus is 2 hours, but it can be longer traffic dependant, and other circumstances. What had always happened to me was that scheduling would ask how soon I could be there, if they called me on short call. I would give them an honest assessment. If I could get there to get it out on time, I would. If I needed two hours, or three due to traffic, I never really got any hassle one way or the other. I also seemed to notice a much less antogonistic relationship between pilots and scheduling than at other airlines--or from the Delta of the past.

Long call is a 12 hour callout. I was comfortable enough sitting at home for long call. They can also call you on long call and transition you to short call, I believe in 10 hours.

Reserve works to even out flying as much as possible amongst reserves. You can request to fly as much as possible, or do nothing and have a request not to fly by default. You can request to be first to be put on short call, or not by default. How a trip is assigned is as has been said, fairly complicated. Requesting to fly increases your chences to fly, but only so much. This is one of the things we need to work on in the next contract, in my opinion.

Swapping and dropping as lineholders is solely dependant on staffing, which is good in some categories and not so good in others. There are many options available to lineholders. You can swap and pick-up with the time that is "open" or "in the pot". There is a board within our computer system where people will post their trips, what they would like to do with it--drop/swap, and what type of trip they are looking for, if any. My experience finds this underutilized but extremely valuable for adjusting your schedule when there is not the staffing to drop trips. Many are looking for a quick 1 day or 2 day to pick up, or a commutable trip instead of theirs in order to swap with, etc.

I think that you will find our scheduling system well ahead of most, and on par with the very best....with some caveats that need fixed in the next contract.

Just some more wood on the fire for you

 

[CesnaCaptn]

I've heard that since scheduling can move you up 8 times, that you the days you end up sitting on call will be on the short call. All the other days on reserve will be out flying. Anyone have any real life example for a given month:
Days on short call
Days on long call
Days out flying

 

[FDJ2]

VACANCY/SURPLUS POSTING
DATE: 11JUN07

IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THE PILOT AGREEMENT, THE FOLLOWING VACANCIES ARE OFFERED FOR BID.

CATEGORY VACANCIES

ATL7ERF/O 6 NEW HIRE POSITIONS
ATL767F/O 53 NEW HIRE POSITIONS
NYC7ERF/O 58 NEW HIRE POSITIONS​

 

[dojetdriver]

Well, we don't get cool "Fonzi" leather jackets like you do, and we have to wear a hat, which most passengers expect from a pilot. But, we can wear the hat any way we want, and I wear mine like a French Baret.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I'm sure this is going to start the old uniform debate, tough;

There a certain things that people expect out of a pilot;

Get them there, and get them there safely. Dead people can't come back to and buy another ticket.

After that, they expect the airline to get them there on time with their underwear.

Expecting a pilot to wear a hat is WAAYYY down there on that list. When I was based in LGA (wearing a hat) I can't tell you hom many times I was mistaken for a skycap while waiting on the parking lot shuttle.

"hey buddy, dose baaags are goin' ta lawderdale"

 

[motch]

Congrats RR!

 

[TankerPuke]

PUFF-

You said you were comfortable staying at home on long call. I take this to mean that if you had several options to get to your domicile...you don't worry. Does scheduling need to know you are staying home? Is this how most treat the long call? I guess if they call you to go on short...you need to be on your way to domicile? I am in SLC and would love to have long call to JFK or ATL if I can stay at home (ahhhh...the life).

PUKE uke:

 

[michael707767]

Expecting a pilot to wear a hat is WAAYYY down there on that list. When I was based in LGA (wearing a hat) I can't tell you hom many times I was mistaken for a skycap while waiting on the parking lot shuttle.

let me chime in on the hat. Do I think its necessary? No. Have I been mistaken for a skycap, yes. Do I think the passengers care at all, or base thier ticket purchase on whether or not the pilots at that airline wear hats....of course not.

That being said, the current policy at Delta is to wear the hat. Its not that big a deal and when you come to work for Delta you agree to abide by its policies and procedures. So wear the hat.

 

[PuffDriver]

PUFF-

You said you were comfortable staying at home on long call. I take this to mean that if you had several options to get to your domicile...you don't worry. Does scheduling need to know you are staying home? Is this how most treat the long call? I guess if they call you to go on short...you need to be on your way to domicile? I am in SLC and would love to have long call to JFK or ATL if I can stay at home (ahhhh...the life).

PUKE uke:

Yes, comfortable meant that I had two options any time of the day to get to report within 12 hours. No scheduling does not need to know where you are, with one exception: If they call you for short call, they must give you 10 hours. Then you have, give or take, 2 hours to report for a trip. You may also use these two hours to commute, but must let crew scheduling that you will be unavailable for contact for that first two hours. You must then be at the airport ready to sign in at the end of that two hours. Clear as mud? I can try to decipher it firther if you need.

We have a commuting policy as well: You must have two flights that depart 2 or more hours apart, both of which arrive prior to sign in, both of which must have seats available 24 hours prior to departure. A jumpseat counts as a seat. If you meet this criteria, you're covered. If you miss a trip after meeting this criteria, you lose pay but avoid discipline.

Again, all of this rarely comes into play, at least for me. Most of the time, you can see which trip is coming, most of the time it is closer to 24 hour notice on long call, and 4 or more hours on short call.

 

[michael707767]

You said you were comfortable staying at home on long call. I take this to mean that if you had several options to get to your domicile...you don't worry. Does scheduling need to know you are staying home? Is this how most treat the long call? I guess if they call you to go on short...you need to be on your way to domicile?

You don't have to tell scheduling where you are during long call, or short call for that matter. They don't need to know, nor do they care. All they care about is that you be able to respond to the contractual call out times. 12 hours for long call and promptly available for short call (which is generally accepted to be 2 hours traffic permitting, but is not really defined.)

That being said, I would not push it, definately not during the first year.

 

[dtfl]

VACANCY/SURPLUS POSTING
DATE: 11JUN07

IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THE PILOT AGREEMENT, THE FOLLOWING VACANCIES ARE OFFERED FOR BID.

CATEGORY VACANCIES

ATL7ERF/O 6 NEW HIRE POSITIONS
ATL767F/O 53 NEW HIRE POSITIONS
NYC7ERF/O 58 NEW HIRE POSITIONS​

For you guys NOT on Mil leave whom can access PBS - where can I find the reserves req in a category? The pilot's home page? Just curious...coming back from leave in Jan/Feb - I'm a Spring 01 hire. Wonder if I could hold 76 F/O ATL off reserve........

 

[MDPilot]

For you guys NOT on Mil leave whom can access PBS - where can I find the reserves req in a category? The pilot's home page? Just curious...coming back from leave in Jan/Feb - I'm a Spring 01 hire. Wonder if I could hold 76 F/O ATL off reserve........

As of Jun 07 you can't. I'm a Jan 00 hire, been on reserve ATL76B for 2 1/2 years now. Am hopeful for a line for Jul though.

 

[Pat Fabin]

PBS doesn't tell you where you would sit. You mean DBMS? That'd give you a current estimate. But you'd be better off taking a look at the projected category list from the last bid on DeltaNet under Crew Resources.

 

[GogglesPisano]

What about short-call in NYC? I assume it's 2 hours to any one of the three airports.

 

[FDJ2]

What about short-call in NYC? I assume it's 2 hours to any one of the three airports.

No, a pilot on short call "must be able to promptly report for an awarded/assigned rotation." Two hours is considered the norm, but it is not a requirement. Local traffic issues can arise. A reserve pilot sitting short call reserve in Kew Gardens might take longer than 2 hours to report to Newark for a rotation and still be in compliance with his short call obligation.

 

[dtfl]

PBS doesn't tell you where you would sit. You mean DBMS? That'd give you a current estimate. But you'd be better off taking a look at the projected category list from the last bid on DeltaNet under Crew Resources.

I thought PBS determined the # of reserves in cat?

 

[FlyingSig]

In NY reasonable available is generally 3 hours from the "nearest" airport (the extra hour is also for LAX)....like mentioned you might be 3 hours from JFK, but that puts you 5 hours from EWR or vice versa.

As for reserve... we are so short of pilots short call isn't really a player (at least for F/O's). They may give you short call but in the last two years I think I've actually sat short call maybe 3 times because you usually have a trip on your line before you even start short call.

Being on reserve right now is just like having a line....only you don't know where you're going until the day before. Bottom line is you'll be flying every day until you fill up.

As to GL's 69 hour comment, he's in la la land. I've NEVER been under 70 hours since May '05 and I'm usually near or over 80. The trip I just got assigned for tomorrow puts me at 76 hours for the month and I'll still have a week to go after that (with 5 more days of reserve). While the company can't fly me over 82 this month I'm willing to be I'll end up within an hour of 82.

Reserve mainly sucks because we're so short you can't move your off days and you have to talk to overworked stresses out schedulers who most of the time aren't very nice to talk to.

 

[FlyingSig]

I thought PBS determined the # of reserves in cat?

PBS doesn't really have anything to do with reserve other then those who don't get a line under PBS get to be on reserve.

Block hours vs. the number of pilots in relation to the average line value determines the number of reserves in cat.

Right now we have summer block hours vs. not enough pilots and a high ALV. Not a good combo. Luckily the company seems to have caught on a little bit by increasing the hiring.

 

[michael707767]

I've NEVER been under 70 hours since May '05 and I'm usually near or over 80. The trip I just got assigned for tomorrow puts me at 76 hours for the month and I'll still have a week to go after that (with 5 more days of reserve). While the company can't fly me over 82 this month I'm willing to be I'll end up within an hour of 82.

while the company cannot make a reserve go over the ALV, you can volunteer to go over the ALV. Sometimes thats a better choice. FlyingSig, for example, could end up with a crappy two day with a deadhead on both ends some they don't take him above the ALV, when volunteering to go over the ALV could have gotten him a nice three day trip. Take a look at open time and make your choices accordingly. Just something to think about.

 

[Razorback one]

Originally Posted by FDJ2

VACANCY/SURPLUS POSTING
DATE: 11JUN07

IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THE PILOT AGREEMENT, THE FOLLOWING VACANCIES ARE OFFERED FOR BID.

CATEGORY VACANCIES

ATL7ERF/O 6 NEW HIRE POSITIONS
ATL767F/O 53 NEW HIRE POSITIONS
NYC7ERF/O 58 NEW HIRE POSITIONS

So, when I start class on Monday, what aircraft will I be offered? What should I bid? I'm at a loss. BTW I live in ATL.
R1​

 

[michael707767]

So, when I start class on Monday, what aircraft will I be offered? What should I bid? I'm at a loss. BTW I live in ATL.

R1​

If would guess you may be offered a lot of choices, from 88s and 738s in ATL and NYC to 767 or 7ER.

My suggestion of you live in ATL would be first to take an aircraft that will be based in ATL. Beyond that, up to you. If you go to the 767 you will be on reserve a long time. Shortest time on reserve will be the 88.

Not sure how the decide what airplanes are offered to what classes, but I know within the class your seniority is determined by SS number.

Good luck on your decision and welcome!