DELTA - WHAT is going to happen ?

[Tomct]

Good luck guys/gals. Hoping for the best for all of you!

 

[~~~^~~~]

The USAirways guys finalized their scope issue and won the right to fly E190s.

Sorta - they fly for an alter ego carrier Republic/Chautaqua making less than ASA's ATR Captains. If getting mainline pilots preferred hiring at a regional, which earns less than the other regionals, was a "win." I bet the US Air guys feel like real winners, seeing as how they negotiated a mainline alter ego "Republic" which was then sold to a a regional.

Now the question, if the are "regional" pilots and not mainline, are they really mainline any more? What about the guys at ASA who flew for TWA, and Delta? At what point does this regional also become part of the enemy that you are fighting? What if US Air parks the smaller Airbus aircraft and orders more 100 seat Embraer jets to be flown by Chautauqua and sub-regional rates?

And how long do you think it will take Northwest to sell "Compass" to exit bankruptcy?

Seems to me they did not win, they simply underbid everyone else. There are no winners on the race to the bottom.

 

[Weasil]

Sorta - they fly for an alter ego carrier Republic/Chautaqua making less than ASA's ATR Captains. .

You are mistaken. Republic/Chautauqua are flying the E-170s. The E-190s will all be flown by mainline pilots for payrates similar to Jetblue.

 

[FatAlbert]

Sorta - they fly for an alter ego carrier Republic/Chautaqua making less than ASA's ATR Captains. If getting mainline pilots preferred hiring at a regional, which earns less than the other regionals, was a "win." I bet the US Air guys feel like real winners, seeing as how they negotiated a mainline alter ego "Republic" which was then sold to a a regional.

HEY HEY HEY!!!

I may be wrong with this so Chq/SA/Rep guys & gals help me out with this but I "think" Republic was a new certificate started by Chq managment. Was never "sold" to a regional. US Air pilots were hired on as Jet 4 Jobs

 

[~~~^~~~]

HEY HEY HEY!!!

I may be wrong with this so Chq/SA/Rep guys & gals help me out with this but I "think" Republic was a new certificate started by Chq managment. Was never "sold" to a regional. US Air pilots were hired on as Jet 4 Jobs

Mid Atlantic was the new Certificate and it was sold to Chautauqua / Republic Airlines Holdings

 

[Weasil]

"Mid Atlantic was the new Certificate and it was sold to Chautauqua / Republic Airlines Holdings"


Again you are wrong. Midatlantic never had its own operating certificate. It was simply a b-scale operation using US Airways' operating certificate. That's why their callsign was US Air. The assets were sold to Republic who had already applied for and gotten their own operating certificate.

You need to stop making up facts.

 

[FORESTGUMP]

......

 

[~~~^~~~]

"Mid Atlantic was the new Certificate and it was sold to Chautauqua / Republic Airlines Holdings"


Again you are wrong. Midatlantic never had its own operating certificate. It was simply a b-scale operation using US Airways' operating certificate. That's why their callsign was US Air. The assets were sold to Republic who had already applied for and gotten their own operating certificate.

You need to stop making up facts.

I'll admit it when I'm wrong and apparently you are correct about the Certificate. Still are you defending this as a "win"? That was the point of the original poster, that ALPA "won" the flying. Here's a link to press coverage....

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/business/14237299.htm

So what happens to the US Air / Mid Atlantic / Mid Atlantic guys on the E170? What happens when they merge with America West?

 

[Diesel]

great there goes my 600,000 delta miles. Ugh i knew i should have used them.

 

[Weasil]

I'll admit it when I'm wrong and apparently you are correct about the Certificate. Still are you defending this as a "win"? That was the point of the original poster, that ALPA "won" the flying. Here's a link to press coverage....

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/business/14237299.htm

So what happens to the US Air / Mid Atlantic / Mid Atlantic guys on the E170? What happens when they merge with America West?

The original post was talking about the EMB-190's. This has nothing to do with Midatlantic. They never had EMB190's. I am not defending anything to do with the MDA sale - I am correcting you. All EMB 190's at US Airways will be flown by mainline pilots.

 

[surplus1]

The original post was talking about the EMB-190's. This has nothing to do with Midatlantic. They never had EMB190's. I am not defending anything to do with the MDA sale - I am correcting you. All EMB 190's at US Airways will be flown by mainline pilots.

While you are technically correct, the problem is there are no EMB-190's at USAirways either.

The U/AWA pilots have agreed to fly them, if they ever get any, for less than the wages of the 70-seaters in many cases. They also agreed to enough 900's to make the 190 wishful thinking.

 

[johnsonrod]

While you are technically correct, the problem is there are no EMB-190's at USAirways either.

The U/AWA pilots have agreed to fly them, if they ever get any, for less than the wages of the 70-seaters in many cases. They also agreed to enough 900's to make the 190 wishful thinking.

In this case, U/AWA pilots protected their scope as they should have. Sure, the wages aren't great (Jet Blue level - thanks to the Jet Blue guys for that), but furloughing pilots to accomodate a growing MDA/CHQ/Republic using E190s would not have been acceptable.

Similarly, Delta pilots will try to protect their scope as well and seek to secure the E190+ flying. Sounds like DCI will get more CR7s or maybe E170s when all is said and done. I personally agree that anything bigger should stay at DAL mainline. In general, let's not bring the E190 wages down futher to regional level wages - that would be taking a step in the wrong direction... I am glad the U/AWA pilots set the precedent for others to follow...

 

[Weasil]

http://www.afausairways.org/Eline/feb11_06.htm

While you are technically correct, the problem is there are no EMB-190's at USAirways either.

The U/AWA pilots have agreed to fly them, if they ever get any, for less than the wages of the 70-seaters in many cases. They also agreed to enough 900's to make the 190 wishful thinking.

EMBRAER 190 AIRCRAFT ORDER

The Company announced an order to acquire 25 EMB 190 aircraft beginning in November of 2006. This order was an adjustment to the previous US Airways order for up to 57 EMB 170 aircraft. The remaining 32 aircraft will be converted to an EMB 190 order subject to confirmation by US Airways. According to an EMBRAER press release, US Airways has an option for up to 50 additional aircraft. The EMB 190 has a range of between 1500 and 2150 nm depending on load and other factors.

• The EMB 190 will be operated under the US Airways operating certificate and flown by mainline US Airways "East" pilots and flight attendants.
• Initial deliveries will begin in November (two aircraft) and December (one aircraft). Revenue service will begin in early January. The future delivery schedule is not known.
• The aircraft will be configured with 11 First Class/88 Coach. Seems odd this airplane will have First Class service and some European flying will not.
• The Transition Agreement between AFA and the Company locked in mainline rates of pay for the EMB 190. The Union will have further discussion regarding service requirements and staffing decisions.
• The Company has not indicated where the aircraft will be based or what routes the aircraft will fly.
• Training will have to take place on the EMB 190

 

[michael707767]

Similarly, Delta pilots will try to protect their scope as well and seek to secure the E190+ flying.

I don't think its a question of securing the E190 flying. The company has never asked to outsource anything more than a 79 seat jet, and one thing that has already been TA'd is a pay rate for the E190.

I think a bigger question is the 79 seater. My opinion, we will be successful in securing the 79 seater, but the pilots will end up not being real happy with the pay rate on it.

 

[PHXFLYR]

This is a good question.

However, there isn't a judge ruling on anything. It's a 3 man arbitration panel who has the sole purpose to either vote yes or no on the abrogation of the Delta pilot's working agreement, and that's it. Once the contract is gone, we have no working agreement with the company.

Would we still fall under the laws of the Railway Labor Act? I don't know, because this could be precedence setting law we're talking about here. If the company were to somehow get an injunction to stop the pilots from walking, what would happen if all the pilots put in a letter of resignation right before the strike were to begin? Interesting stuff........

Hey Arch......

To answer your question regarding resigning en masse , I think the Ansett pilots tried something like that in Australia 15 years ago. I think it lead to their demise if I remember. Another question. should the arbitration panel toss the contract and a Delta pilot decides to continue flying just the same will he/or she be considered a scab? Remember,you no longer have a working agreement. Hope you can get things to work out in your favor.


PHXFLYR

 

[Archie Bunker]

Hey Arch......

To answer your question regarding resigning en masse , I think the Ansett pilots tried something like that in Australia 15 years ago. I think it lead to their demise if I remember. Another question. should the arbitration panel toss the contract and a Delta pilot decides to continue flying just the same will he/or she be considered a scab? Remember,you no longer have a working agreement. Hope you can get things to work out in your favor.


PHXFLYR

Well, my interpretation of the situation is as follows: If the arbitration panel dumps our contract, our MEC president said we will strike. If we strike, any Delta pilot that crosses the picket line would indeed be a slimeball scab in the eyes of the union, and also in the eyes of every pilot walking the line. It looks pretty black and white to me.