DELTA - WHAT is going to happen ?

[satpak77]

OK, plain English -

what is going to happen at Delta?

 

[On Your Six]

OK, plain English -

what is going to happen at Delta?

IF the contract is voided, the pilots will strike. You can bank on that.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

They'll either strike or not.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

They'll either strike or not.

Since I am feeling a little froggy -- they will either go out of business or not.

:laugh:

 

[Big Beer Belly]

IF the contract is voided, the pilots will strike. You can bank on that.

At first I thought they'd roll over like everyone before them. After speaking honestly to a number of buddies at DAL, I'm convinced that a significant portion will vote for a strike. In many cases, the abolishment of a contract combined with the very significant pay cuts has reduced the wage rate to the "tipping point" (i.e., the point at which many would rather start over in another occupation and see DAL fold).

It remains to be seen whether that "significant portion" is a majority or not. I am personally surprised at how large the "significant portion" may be based on my unscientific research.

BBB

 

[accinelli]

OK, plain English -

what is going to happen at Delta?

Pilots are going to talk tough, threaten strike then settle on a TA.

Some more years when the company makes money pilots strike and get a better contract. Parity +. Then BK and the whole process once again.

In between this a merger might occur as well.

 

[GogglesPisano]

What are the sticking points in negotiations and how far apart are they?

Good luck DAL pilots.

 

[sandman2122]

I'm just waiting for "the general" to post with his big freakin orange General Lee........I'm backing away from my monitor...

 

[Archie Bunker]

Pilots are going to talk tough, threaten strike then settle on a TA.

A TA would be nice, however there's only one small problem......nobody is negotiating. Add to that the fact that most pilots I know are not willing to give anymore. The last TA only passed by a margin of 58% to 42%. I honestly don't think that anything on the table right now would pass muster with a majority of the pilots. I mean really...if the numbskulls running our company can't turn a profit with 47% of our pay in their pockets, what good is 5 or 10% more going to do for them? What is the point?

In the meantime, the result of the strike vote will be made public on Tuesday, April 4th.......and the ruling by the 3 man arbitration panel concerning the abrogation of our contract should be announced no later than April 15th. If the panel voids our contract, our MEC Chairman said that we will strike, period. No contract=no work.

Interesting times lay ahead, no doubt.

 

[FDJ2]

OK, plain English -

what is going to happen at Delta?

Management will either cave or be replaced. If the contract is rejected the pilots will strike.

Delta revenue is $1.5B/month, it's too big a cash cow to sacrifice over $150M/year. Cash on hand is $400M more than plan, January performance is $25M ahead of plan and February performance is also $20M-$25M ahead of plan without more concessions.

 

[Archie Bunker]

What are the sticking points in negotiations and how far apart are they?

Good luck DAL pilots.

Goggles,

On the surface, we are only $165MM apart in the negotiations. They want $305MM in cost savings, and we have $140MM on the table right now. That's about $140MM more than I'm willing to give to these trogladytes ruining, I mean running our company into the ground.

The real issue here isn't the 165 million, it's the loss of the DB pension (huge), Scope (huge), sick leave (not as huge), and a myriad of other things I can't recall off the top of my head to which the company has assigned zero value. Ludicrous, in my opinion. If we cave in on Scope, the bottom 1500 to 2000 guys will be looking for work. The smallest thing that Delta will fly will be the 737-800, and the 79 seaters will be farmed out to the lowest bidder.

As it stands right now, I will absolutely vote no on this POS table position.....and it's not even a TA yet!!

 

[ekuflyer]

I don't think they should have to give anymore, however I'm afraid that the Judge will make a ruling that the pilots can not walk. If they do then they could be individually held in contempt of the court.
Has DALPA thought about this scenario?

 

[Archie Bunker]

I don't think they should have to give anymore, however I'm afraid that the Judge will make a ruling that the pilots can not walk. If they do then they could be individually held in contempt of the court.
Has DALPA thought about this scenario?

This is a good question.

However, there isn't a judge ruling on anything. It's a 3 man arbitration panel who has the sole purpose to either vote yes or no on the abrogation of the Delta pilot's working agreement, and that's it. Once the contract is gone, we have no working agreement with the company.

Would we still fall under the laws of the Railway Labor Act? I don't know, because this could be precedence setting law we're talking about here. If the company were to somehow get an injunction to stop the pilots from walking, what would happen if all the pilots put in a letter of resignation right before the strike were to begin? Interesting stuff........

 

[Champ42272]

Personally, I haven't seen one word anywhere contemplating what would happen if the pilots actually WON the decision board verdict.

Since DALPA got to pick two of the judges and the company only one, combined with the fact that things are getting better since every airline has been increasing ticket prices (gee, what a concept), and that it is obvious to everyone in American that the company is attempting to bust the union and punish the pilots for the 2000 contract, I haven't given up on the decision board yet. That may be naive, but I would love to see Jerry's face if the decision didn't go his way.

Champ42272

 

[FDJ2]

Would we still fall under the laws of the Railway Labor Act? I don't know, because this could be precedence setting law we're talking about here. If the company were to somehow get an injunction to stop the pilots from walking, what would happen if all the pilots put in a letter of resignation right before the strike were to begin? Interesting stuff........

Not as precedence setting as you might think. In the context of contract rejections, which have happened in the past, including airline contracts, the right to strike has always been upheld. Besides, the 2nd circuit has already stated that they don't have jurisdiction to enjoin a strike at DAL, that probably has something to do with the Norris-Laguardia Act which specifically prohibiting federal courts from enjoining a strike.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Personally, I haven't seen one word anywhere contemplating what would happen if the pilots actually WON the decision board verdict.

That's because the thought of actually winning something in arbitration is incomprehensible to most of us. For the 6 years that I've been at Delta, almost 5 of those years have been nothing but doom and gloom. 2 1/2 years of furlough, 47% paycuts, and a cavalcade of idiots running/leaving the company has kind of turned me into a "glass half empty" sort of guy.

Since DALPA got to pick two of the judges and the company only one, combined with the fact that things are getting better....

Not exactly correct. The swing vote (Richard Bloch) is by no means in DALPA's pocket. This is the same arbitrator that voted against the furloughees in April 2002's force majeure hearings.

That may be naive, but I would love to see Jerry's face if the decision didn't go his way.

Me and you both buddy.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Not as precedence setting as you might think. In the context of contract rejections, which have happened in the past, including airline contracts, the right to strike has always been upheld. Besides, the 2nd circuit has already stated that they don't have jurisdiction to enjoin a strike at DAL, that probably has something to do with the Norris-Laguardia Act which specifically prohibiting federal courts from enjoining a strike.

Good point FDJ.

I now recall some of the testimony during the course of the 1113 hearings in Dec and Jan, where Judge Prudence what's her name told one of the company lackeys on the witness stand that she had no authority to enjoin a strike at Delta if the contract was dumped.

If the Federal BK courts don't have the power to stop the pilots from walking, then who does? Do you think that "W" could get involved?

 

[Draginass]

What will happen? The same thing as US Air. The pilots will fold.

 

[Draginass]

I don't think they should have to give anymore, however I'm afraid that the Judge will make a ruling that the pilots can not walk. If they do then they could be individually held in contempt of the court.
Has DALPA thought about this scenario?

IF that were to happen, do you think the sheriff will be out hauling pilots back to work in the back of police cruisers? The corporations practically own the government, but it's still not that bad . . . yet.

 

[accinelli]

A TA would be nice, however there's only one small problem......nobody is negotiating. Add to that the fact that most pilots I know are not willing to give anymore. The last TA only passed by a margin of 58% to 42%. I honestly don't think that anything on the table right now would pass muster with a majority of the pilots. I mean really...if the numbskulls running our company can't turn a profit with 47% of our pay in their pockets, what good is 5 or 10% more going to do for them? What is the point?

In the meantime, the result of the strike vote will be made public on Tuesday, April 4th.......and the ruling by the 3 man arbitration panel concerning the abrogation of our contract should be announced no later than April 15th. If the panel voids our contract, our MEC Chairman said that we will strike, period. No contract=no work.

Interesting times lay ahead, no doubt.

Sure -- whatever gets you through the day. Meanwhile, I hope you have apps in with all the regionals, LUV and JBlu.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Sure -- whatever gets you through the day. Meanwhile, I hope you have apps in with all the regionals, LUV and JBlu.

Actually, I have apps in with......none of the above. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[PurpleTail]

I personally do not think the judge will throw out the contracts and would side with the pilots. I say 'would' because the company knows this and will lower the supposed $305 M they say they need. I'm forecasting the company will settle for something in the $175-200 M concession range.

Good luck and hold the line as best you can, I know it can't be easy...most of us have families too.

 

[michael707767]

Not exactly correct. The swing vote (Richard Bloch) is by no means in DALPA's pocket. This is the same arbitrator that voted against the furloughees in April 2002's force majeure hearings. .

actually, I thought Blochs ruling on the force majeure furloughs was more on the union side than the company side. Remember, the company wanted then gone, period.

 

[Buckaroo]

I’m looking forward to seeing DALPA pilots strike and put Delta out of business. I’ve got a lot of financial backing to start purchasing all of the soon-to-be foreclosed properties in Peachtree City.
After this is all over, I’ll never have to work again.

Thanks DALPA!!

 

[On Your Six]

What will happen? The same thing as US Air. The pilots will fold.

The USAirways guys finalized their scope issue and won the right to fly E190s. So, are you suggesting this should happen with the DAL guys as well?

 

["GO AROUND"]

IF that were to happen, do you think the sheriff will be out hauling pilots back to work in the back of police cruisers? The corporations practically own the government, but it's still not that bad . . . yet.

Noone can make the pilots go to work. No judge, law enforcement, or even George W. Call it a strike or not, the pilots are not required to show up to fly. DAL pilots are at will workers and nothing requires them to work for DAL.

Calling it a strike makes it sound better to the public.

 

[Just thinking]

Management will cave... they are too greedy to let the "NEW" stock that will be issued slip out of their hands. Look at other BK exits and see how their management has cashed in. They don't know how to run a business but they do know how to make themselves rich and they can't afford to pass up this opportunity. My prayers are with the pilots and their resolve to hold firm.

 

[Archie Bunker]

actually, I thought Blochs ruling on the force majeure furloughs was more on the union side than the company side. Remember, the company wanted then gone, period.

Michael,

Back in 2002, Bloch ruled that the company could furlough pilots under the force majeure clause of our contract. I know, because his ruling put me out on the street. I believe he also ruled against the pilots on FM2, concerning back pay, but don't quote me on that. The one thing that he did vote for in favor of the pilots was the economic trigger to recall pilots in 2004.

 

[FDJ2]

If the Federal BK courts don't have the power to stop the pilots from walking, then who does? Do you think that "W" could get involved?

W, might get involved, and use his bully pulpit to persuade both sides to call of any self help, but he doesn't have any statutory authority since DAL isn't in any section six negotiations. Also, I have it from good authority that the NMB has told senior union officials that it would have no authority to intervene if there is no contract binding both parties.

 

[FDJ2]

What will happen? The same thing as US Air. The pilots will fold.

Please give me the run down on USAIR 1113 procedings? This shouldn't take you long. Just start with which day the 1113 motion was filed to reject the ALPA contract.