Delta to hire in 12 to 18 months?

[kikejavy]

Hey guys I had a Delta 777 captain in my jumpseat a few weeks ago and he said that there was talk of starting to hire in 12 to 18 months. He also said Delta was adding 2 777's next year. Another guy I talked to yesterday said that about 300 of the guys that are currently on furlough deferred the callback and they were having a hard time filling up the classes with furloghees. Any truth to this rumors can anyone confirm any of this? If so does anyone have any idea what the mins are gonna be when the door opens up again?

 

[accinelli]

I thought Delta was going to merge and/or liquidate 12 months.

 

[PCL_128]

I was riding on a DAL 757 jumpseat a couple of weeks ago and the Captain made the same comments. I think he said that the they're calling 5 furloughs to get just 1 that doesn't defer. If those numbers are accurate (I know, big "if"), then hiring shouldn't be too far away. Delta is supposedly looking to buy AMR's old S80s, and they've already bought a few of the old TWA 757s. Maybe things are finally looking up.

 

[NuGuy]

I was riding on a DAL 757 jumpseat a couple of weeks ago and the Captain made the same comments. I think he said that the they're calling 5 furloughs to get just 1 that doesn't defer. If those numbers are accurate (I know, big "if"), then hiring shouldn't be too far away. Delta is supposedly looking to buy AMR's old S80s, and they've already bought a few of the old TWA 757s. Maybe things are finally looking up.

Heyas PCL,

If what happened at NWA is any indication, those numbers are in the ball park. As recalling starts, you get about a 30 - 35 percent acceptance. Once you move out into the part of the list that has been out more than 3 years, it drops to around 10 percent.

You have lot of guys who defer who are on mil leave, but there are plenty who went out and got better gigs. About a dozen guys this year alone have gone to CAL from NWA. Unless there's a merger between CAL and NWA, I wouldn't expect to see them back.

Nu

 

[satpak77]

Another guy I talked to yesterday said that about 300 of the guys that are currently on furlough deferred the callback and they were having a hard time filling up the classes with furloghees.

lets see

people on furlough, who already HAVE seniority numbers are not returning.

I think he said that the they're calling 5 furloughs to get just 1 that doesn't defer.

These are people who in other circumstances should be scrampling back to the DAL cockpit, ready to fly. But they are not. Hmm. Lets see, yeah, let me apply. I am much smarter than those people, who are insiders.

To further encourage myself to apply, let me observe

1) Delta pensions underfunded by 10.6 Billion, according to the PBGC
2) Airline is Ch.11

Let me order an interview kit from Kit Darby. Where do I apply?

** If you are an RJ captain at Eagle or other "big" regional your current job security may actually be BETTER than a new hire at one of the old-school majors. My opinion.

 

[FreightNazi]

Can I call Plato and get at the head of the line?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Ok guys, Pay attention to what SatPak said here.

"These are people who in other circumstances should be scrampling back to the DAL cockpit, ready to fly. But they are not."

This is important because Satpak is right. A few years ago (1999-2000) folks were falling all over each other to get a job at the legacy carriers. If pilots are electing NOT to go back to the airline they were furloughed from, we have to ask ourselves why?

And using that same logic, why would we want those jobs? Are we suffering from a form of SJS?

I'm furloughed from USAir. Look i'd love to go back to flying a Boeing as much as anybody (or anything with an APU or adjustable rudder pedals for that matter), but I have to ask myself whether leaving a stable job with good pay would really be a SMART thing to do... or if I would be going simply to satisfy my ego.

 

[AA717driver]

old TWA 757s

Actually the "oldest" TWA 757 was delivered very late in '96 or in '97. They are some of the last -200's built and would be a good acquisition for a PW operator.TC

P.S.--The couple of Delta guys I know are 2000 hires and are making far more in corporate than they would make at Delta--for a LONG time.

 

[michael707767]

If pilots are electing NOT to go back to the airline they were furloughed from, we have to ask ourselves why?

And using that same logic, why would we want those jobs? Are we suffering from a form of SJS?

I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree.

Accepting recall is a different decision to make than accepting a job offer would be.

Back when I got hired by Delta, I had a pretty good thing going. Years 1-3 at Delta were not only a pay hit, but my quality of life suffered. Not to mention I gave up job security to take the job with Delta. But I did it because in the long term, I would be better off at Delta.

Now, when I got hired if I had the option of getting my seniority number, and then actually going to class a couple of years later when my pay and quality of life would be better.......by all means I would have done that.

This is the situation the recalled pilots are in. They have thier number. If I had a number and had a pretty good thing going, I would bypass until the pay and quality of life would match what I had going, even if Delta was a sure thing.

I have no doubt some pilots are bypassing because they are unsure of Delta's future. But I think a large number of bypasses are simply pilots waiting till what they can hold at Delta (or any legacy) is better than what they have now.

Look, I am not saying that I think you should leave what you have now and come to Delta if we start to hire. But, I would not base that decision on the bypass rate without an examination of why guys are bypassing.

Long term you may decide what I did.......the short term pain is worth it.

 

[iaflyer]

I don't know the exact situations, but it is possible that guys are just bypassing, not wanting to go back to Delta or NWA until they see how things shake out.
Why leave a place with some job security to get on the bottom of a senority list? If they bypass, they can wait for a while to get some people below them and protect against more furloughs.

Last year Northwest recalled some people, then a few months later turned around and furloughed the same people. I'm sure those guys are a bit gun shy of it happening again.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I know one guy giving up on Delta and moving on. He is on mil leave and wishes he could bypass.


For possible new hires.....

If you start you have a bunch of bypassers that could continue to come back and keep you on reserve.

Retirements are next to nil.

Fleet size is in flux...so promises of fleet growth are hazy, at best.


If you live in Delta's junior domicile, is it ATL, CVG or New York???, and like FO reserve with little job security, I say go for it.

 

[satpak77]

I know one guy giving up on Delta and moving on. He is on mil leave and wishes he could bypass.

For possible new hires.....

If you start you have a bunch of bypassers that could continue to come back and keep you on reserve.

Retirements are next to nil.

Fleet size is in flux...so promises of fleet growth are hazy, at best.


If you live in Delta's junior domicile, is it ATL, CVG or New York???, and like FO reserve with little job security, I say go for it.

based on this, what is (still yet to be seen, but...) "2006 new hire to Captain" time? 20 years?

In my opinion, today's Delta is not grand-dad's Delta from the 70's and 80's. I think alot of the younger airline pilot wanna-be's don't realize this. Kinda like a diehard Dallas Cowboys fan, who thinks its still Tom Landry and Dorsett or Jimmie Johnson and Troy Aikman.

Its not. The Cowboys are no longer the Super Bowl team they once were.

 

[PCL_128]

satpak77, I certainly see where you're coming from, and I agree that Delta is not the Delta that I knew growing up in Atlanta. However, most of us that would be thinking about applying are regional guys that have nowhere to go but up. Yes, I have excellent job security nearing the top quarter of the seniority list at Pinnacle, but I will never break six figures as a line pilot at Pinnacle and I will always be forced to commute. Delta may have fallen quite a ways, but they are certainly more appealing than virtually every regional job.

 

[michael707767]

look, bottom line is this......when Delta starts to hire, they will have thousands of applications within a month.

 

[satpak77]

look, bottom line is this......when Delta starts to hire, they will have thousands of applications within a month.

no doubt about that. And don't take my comments to be personally against the fine men and women at Delta (you didn't, but...).

However, from a "overall future outlook" perspective, I think Delta is not what it used to be.

Besides SWA (obvious), I think America West and CAL offer more job security in 2006 than UAL, DAL, and AMR, if all three were to magically hire tomorrow.

I think if Carl Icahn started Eastern II, you would get thousands of applications also.

 

[michael707767]

no doubt about that. And don't take my comments to be personally against the fine men and women at Delta (you didn't, but...).

However, from a "overall future outlook" perspective, I think Delta is not what it used to be.

Besides SWA (obvious), I think America West and CAL offer more job security in 2006 than UAL, DAL, and AMR, if all three were to magically hire tomorrow.

I think if Carl Icahn started Eastern II, you would get thousands of applications also.

No offense taken. I would have to think long and hard about what I would do too.

No, Delta is not what it used to be. But, things are getting better.

AWA, CAL, probably Airtran and Jetblue, offer more job security today. But thats a snapshot of today. Five years ago, probably none of those would be at the top of a pilots list. Five years from now, who knows?

I think Mr. Branson along with Fred Greed are pretty close to an Eastern II with Virgin America. And yes, I bet they have thousands of applications.

 

[Networ-King]

satpak77, I certainly see where you're coming from, and I agree that Delta is not the Delta that I knew growing up in Atlanta. However, most of us that would be thinking about applying are regional guys that have nowhere to go but up. Yes, I have excellent job security nearing the top quarter of the seniority list at Pinnacle, but I will never break six figures as a line pilot at Pinnacle and I will always be forced to commute. Delta may have fallen quite a ways, but they are certainly more appealing than virtually every regional job.

Don't be too sure about this statement!!!!!!!!!!! You leave your cushy regional gig and head for Mother dou che would not be considered a step up. And should one of these morons actually succeed in blowing up an airplane, you are going to be in the next wave of furloughs. You'll ask yourself the same freaking questions the rest of us did.... Should I start at the bottom of another regional? Bottom line is that the pilots at delta are the most ruthless, greedy bunch of whores I've ever run accross and since they are represented by the "best" union out there, they are also corrupt and spineless and they will fly opentime till they drop dead, keeping the furloughed guys out for even longer. Head to CAL or AWA/ US Air, Airtran or even world would be a better place.

Yeah.... Delta will have apps on file, but from people that have nothing else going on or no movement at their current job. If you want to fly an airplane with delta colors then you should apply to DCI and go that route, because delta has no intentions of keeping the airline and airline. With the 90 seaters sold down the river its just a matter of time for mother dou che to become a travel agency with a bunch of companies flying their customers around. UUUHhh wait.... they already do that.... just a matter of time they go by the way side of Pan AM and you'll see a 727 once in a while with Delta on the side of it doing sh!t for the DOD or vacation express, or apple, or trans globle.......

Good luck whatever you decide, but be warned of your "brothers and sisters" in the double dou che suit at mother d.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Can I call Plato and get at the head of the line?

Call Bluto instead.

 

[ALGFLYR]

For possible new hires.....

If you start you have a bunch of bypassers that could continue to come back and keep you on reserve.

Retirements are next to nil.

How can Delta have new hires with people on furlough? I though as they recall, furloughees can pass until they get to the bottom of the list. Then they work back up the list with a final offer: Accept the recall or resign your number... Is that not the way it works at Delta?

 

[Benhuntn]

Let's see they lost 2.2 BILLION last qtr. Yep hiring is just around the corner.

 

[michael707767]

How can Delta have new hires with people on furlough? I though as they recall, furloughees can pass until they get to the bottom of the list. Then they work back up the list with a final offer: Accept the recall or resign your number... Is that not the way it works at Delta?

No, you do not have to accept the recall or resign. Our contract states that furloughs have ten years from their furlough date before they are no longer on the seniority list. Once Delta gets through the list, they may in fact make a second run through to see if people want to come back, but they do not have too. At that point, you would see new hires.

FWIW when I was hired there were still pilots furloughed in the early 90s who were still out on bypass.

 

[PCL_128]

Let's see they lost 2.2 BILLION last qtr. Yep hiring is just around the corner.

That's all accounting tricks while in BK. I don't believe for a second that DAL is truly losing money after renegotiating all of their lease payments and securing over a billion dollars in pilot concessions.

 

[michael707767]

Let's see they lost 2.2 BILLION last qtr. Yep hiring is just around the corner.

Delta is hiring ramp workers and gate agents. They are hiring in the HR department and other administrative postitions.

Losses or not, if Delta's schedule requires more pilots than they have, Delta will hire.

 

[satpak77]

That's all accounting tricks while in BK. I don't believe for a second that DAL is truly losing money after renegotiating all of their lease payments and securing over a billion dollars in pilot concessions.

Uh, believe it. And yes, its AFTER the leases and pilot concessions.

Also, related trivia.

In 1998, Crude Oil was $10 a barrell. 8 years later, in 2006, its $75 a barrell, or 7.5 times increase.

If it drops tomorrow to $60 (never will happen, but lets pretend), and only DOUBLES (not goes up 7+ times) in the next 8 years, we are looking at $120 a barrell crude oil in 2012.

Crude oil is one of, if not THE, major costs facing the airlines today.

The Ch.11 ones are facing a fatal crisis in the coming years.

 

[chperplt]

Delta had an operating profit last quarter. They did not lose money on the business. They lost 2.2 billion in lawyer fees, lease expenses related to renegotiations, and other BK related costs.

 

[Iron Man]

Hi Nazi,
Where is Plato these days ? Any contact?

 

[FreightNazi]

I don't know where Playdoh is, but I've always wanted to fly an L-1011 and be a "real" airline pilot.

 

[FreightNazi]

Guys could go to Delta and get some heavy international experience to make themselves more competetive for FedEx and UPS.

 

[Megadeth]

...nevermind

 

[PCL_128]

Uh, believe it. And yes, its AFTER the leases and pilot concessions.

Also, related trivia.

Here's a little trivia for you: what is Delta's current cash on hand? What was it a year ago? Two years ago?

The answers paint a much clearer picture about what Delta's financial shape really is. You are looking at earnings numbers, which are highly affected by accounting techniques. To get the real picture, you need to look at cash on hand and cash flow. It's been 4 QTRs since DAL had a negative cash flow, and it's been 2 years since their cash on hand has gone down year-over-year. Delta, along with the other legacies, are doing just fine even with ridiculously high oil prices coupled with ridiculously low fare prices.