DELTA TA-Position Paper for a Yes Vote.

[waveflyer]

General,
There is a big difference between choosing to fly at a lower wage in lieu of stock options in a rapidly expanding company, and choosing to outsource flying, setting up a whipsaw markets to keep pilots constantly chasing seniority and higher pay- artificially keeping wages lower at said carriers.

Do any of you really believe that virgin America's wages now, and SWA's before is as damaging as outsourcing has.

If you believe that, then you are what I've said you are. Sellouts, who do NOT GET THE DAMAGE THEY DO.

It is NONE of my business what DALPA gets paid- they are responding to market pressures and the leverage they have-

It is every pilot's business when a company decides to farm out flying and make their problems other pilots problems instead of bearing the weight of competition
themselves.

Take some responsibility for your own TA. That is the subject. No other airline.

 

[Speedtape]

General,
There is a big difference between choosing to fly at a lower wage in lieu of stock options in a rapidly expanding company, and choosing to outsource flying, setting up a whipsaw markets to keep pilots constantly chasing seniority and higher pay- artificially keeping wages lower at said carriers.

Do any of you really believe that virgin America's wages now, and SWA's before is as damaging as outsourcing has.

If you believe that, then you are what I've said you are. Sellouts, who do NOT GET THE DAMAGE THEY DO.

It is NONE of my business what DALPA gets paid- they are responding to market pressures and the leverage they have-

It is every pilot's business when a company decides to farm out flying and make their problems other pilots problems instead of bearing the weight of competition
themselves.

Take some responsibility for your own TA. That is the subject. No other airline.

If you really believed your own BS and were a person of principle, then you would have never flown an outsourced RJ--no matter what the reason! Because you did, it's real hard for ANYONE to jump on your bandwagon!

If it was a perfect world, and someone could wave a magic wand, all RJs would go poof! However, there are facts and circumstances that exist, because of what "Pilots" compromised for in the past; but MORE importantly, the fact that there was an abundant Supply of pilots that allowed the camel to stick his whole carcass in the tent was the fuel for the fire that Managements needed to create the "C" scale!

Now, in the irony of the situation, the whole outsourcing issue will soon reverse, because there WILL be a pilot SUPPLY shortage in the next few years. The pilot shortage will be at the regionals, and when that happens, economics and the principle of supply and demand will take care of the outsourcing better than any Negotiating Committee could ever hope!

Hang on, Help is on it's way! You will get what you want, just not on your time line!

 

[waveflyer]

Speedtape-

(I'm still curious what POV you're arguing from- where do you work?)

We are making the same argument. 50's are going away naturally. -900's aren't.
70 new airframes can be kept at mainline and operated there, or you dilute the logic for flying any domestic airliner on the mainline certificate and contract.

I'm not asking for ALL RJ's to go poof(!) and go away-
I'm asking for all the new large rj's to be flown where they ought to be flown.

That isn't asking for the world.

 

[Dan Roman]

WAVE!!!

Really? Seriously.....take your $hit to another board!! Does this TA affect you?

The only reason I have any clue of your consistent whining and crying is because people quote your sorry excuses for an argument. You didn't get hired at Delta....you have a hard-on for us.....we get it, now move along....what's that? You wish you didn't have to buy your type? I hear ya pal....

Go shine your leather jacket or pray to Gary on your mat set for Dallas Mecca at high noon Herb time, but get the F off our board and stop stirring our pot.

I guess you've never commented on anything on the SWA boards???

 

[Dan Roman]

Yea Dan, those same Southwest pilots from the 80's and 90's were awarded large stock options with low, in the money strike prices all while the stock was splitting every six months. Can you say millionaires? Just with the stock options alone! And it was done using a 737 as a regional jet and not allowing any other 'feed'.

That's fine, they got theirs. But they undercut the rest of the profesion while not leaving anything for future generations. I.E. that type of retirement benefit is not an option for current SWA pilots. They just have a 401k that doesn't even have industry leading matching.
One point the SWA vs. DAL argument on here with regards to RJ flying is missing in comparing the two is the fact that they are two different types of airlines. RJ's feeding SWA's point to point type service obviously doesn't make sense. RJ's feeding DAL's large Intl and long distance domestic flights obviously does. It's apples and oranges comparing the two. Two completely different types of operations. SWA obviously will never be the kind of airline DAL is and DAL will never be the kind of operation SWA is, Song proved that.

 

[Dan Roman]

...and again, the worst part is, after SWA pilots worked for less to get established in the industry and the legacies have done what they can to survive, you now have SWA pilots critizing them for trying to stay competitive as best they can.

 

[waveflyer]

I'm not comparing southwest an delta or any other legacy-
You're the one Dan who refuses to understand that I flew at 5 airlines, including a legacy, long before SWA-
I am not a Swa representative and the beliefs that I express now were born of experience as a commuter feed pilot, mainline, then at a regional
My experience at Swa has nothing to do with anything and any attempt to make it something is just distraction.

But I will take on your last point-

If you can't compete bc of wage undercutting- how does it help to outsource where the entire system is about keeping wages lower than they would be in the real market.
Mgmt uses regionals to divide and conquer.