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Long Time Gone
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dmspilot00
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FlyDeltasJets
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UnstableAviator
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I like it simply because it is different.
I get tired of seeing every airline do some bland horizontal stripes followed by a logo on the tail. Kudos for having the guts to break the mold.
I looked around a little and read some articles detailing the features Song will offer. TV, meals, 33" seat pitch, and entetainment while waiting! That will make regular Delta seem like cattle cars...
I get tired of seeing every airline do some bland horizontal stripes followed by a logo on the tail. Kudos for having the guts to break the mold.
I looked around a little and read some articles detailing the features Song will offer. TV, meals, 33" seat pitch, and entetainment while waiting! That will make regular Delta seem like cattle cars...
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UnstableAviator
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asarjfo said:You are right, they have to be careful how "good" they make things on Song. People will start bailing on the mainline flights for the "low cost" option......because its better service.......wait a second my head hurts.
GO GREEN!!!!
YA' THINK?
Maybe that is Delta's real goal.
The future of this industry is LCCs and RJs. The traditional "mainline" will be relegated to high yield business cities, trancson, and transoceanic flights.
As for song's scheme... sheesh. As someone said, dumb name, ugly plane, same flawed business model. I'll give them two years.
NYRANGERS
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ifly4food said:
Aside from a few new routes, Song is basically replacing Delta Express flying. Delta Express was a limited sucess in that the original purpose was to bypass the hubs with lesiure pax. Thus freeing up the more expensive seats to sell durring the "good" years. Now Delta Express is being replaced with a far better product. Song allready has the passenger base (from Delta Express), gates, pilots, etc.
The only "trick" will be to fill the airplanes. All employees will be paid competitive LCC wages. The pilots will make up the difference by flying planes that can carry 199 pax.
Here is an example (albeight a very simplistic one). For our competition to fly the same 199 pax on the same route.....
Lets take Jetblue. For Jetblue to fly 199 pax they need two A320's, two crew's (pilots and FA's), etc. So for one full Song flight, it will take 2 flights operated by Jetblue to carry the same amount of pax. So all this "the pilots make too much, so the airline is bound to fail", is complete BS. If Song fails, I assure you it won't be because the pilots "make too much".
Maybe some Jetblue guys can help me out with this example...............
A 757 captain at Song earns around $250 an hour. A 757 F/O earns around $150. So thats $400 an hour roughly to pay the pilots. At Jetblue lets say the captain makes $120 an hour and the F/O makes $80 (not sure about these numbers, JeffG a little help here). So thats $200 an hour for Jetblue. Take the two flights Jetblue needs to operate and you get around $400 an hour just for the pilots (never mind you need to spend an extra $40,000,000 on another A320).
Anyway just some observations. Very basic, I know, but you get the idea. This is not a "who is better post" or "who is going to put who out of business post". Both airlines may do fine in this environment, time will tell.
Take care all,
NYR (missed the playoffs for the 6th straight year
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Typhoon1244
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I noticed that the word "Delta" is not painted on the airplane anywhere. Not even a footnote in small letters by the L1 door: "Song...by Delta." Are they truly going to run this like a totally different airline? Different gates, ticket envelopes, etc.?
(Maybe they're hydrogen fueled...)
How is all that going to be "low cost?" Lots of fancy amenities, Delta pilots flying for Delta wages, 757's...where does the savings come from?UnstableAviator said:
(Maybe they're hydrogen fueled...)
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Song gives analysts good vibrations
By Todd Pack | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted April 13, 2003
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STORIES
Delta's new tune
Apr 13, 2003
March makeover. (ERIK S. LESSER FOR THE ORLANDO SENTINEL)
Apr 13, 2003
Delta Air Lines isn't the only big airline to launch a low-cost brand, but some experts say it could be one of the only carriers to make the concept work.
Song's gizmo-packed planes, low overhead and direct service from the Northeast to prime vacation spots such as Orlando could make it the most serious threat yet to bargain brands such as AirTran, JetBlue and Southwest, analysts said.
"There are people who'll say I'm crazy, but I believe Song is a major competitor," airline consultant Michael Boyd said.
Big airlines have always had trouble running successful small ones because their larger organizations aren't nearly as nimble or efficient as those of their low-cost competitors, said George Hamlin, a senior vice president of Washington-based Global Aviation Associates.
Bargain brands such as United Airlines' Shuttle and US Airways' MetroJet couldn't fly as cheaply and ended up among the first business lines cut when air travel fell after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, analysts said.
Delta's own Delta Express brand, launched in October 1996 to help the No. 3 airline fend off discounters on key Florida routes, is still flying but will be replaced by Song.
Start-up cost: $65 million
Florida is a crucial market for Delta, representing 30 percent of its domestic revenue, said Song's president, John Selvaggio.
But most of that revenue comes from tourists, who typically pay less for their tickets than do business travelers, who often pay a premium for booking at the last minute.
By keeping Song's operating costs down, the company hopes to make more money on those Florida leisure fares, helping the company overall.
Delta is spending $65 million to start a new airline from scratch rather than change Delta Express because it wanted its low-cost brand to have a distinct identity, one where travelers wouldn't expect amenities such as first-class that are associated with Delta's mainline service, said Tim Mapes, Song's managing director.
And Song is all about being distinctive -- from its vivid colors, to its melodious name to its entertainment system. The system, designed to one-up JetBlue, promises live TV plus a digital music library, video games and Internet access. JetBlue, which also flies between the Northeast and Florida, offers live satellite TV.
But Song aims to make money by lowering its costs, executives said.
It plans to keep its planes flying 12.7 hours a day, compared with 11.5 hours a day for Delta Express. Planes don't make money sitting at the gate.
Banning stand-by "buddy passes" for friends and families of employees and steering passengers to self-service kiosks will let Song get by with fewer workers at the airport.
Removing the first-class section and a galley from Song's Boeing 757s will let the airline increase capacity from 186 passengers to 199. U.S. regulations require one flight attendant for every 50 passengers, so limiting capacity to 199 will eliminate the need for an extra flight attendant on board the aircraft.
Using 36 of Delta's newest 757s will give Delta lower maintenance costs than it had on Delta Express, which flew older, smaller 737s. Delta Express' planes will go back to Delta's mainline service.
Pennies a mile
Delta's goal in all this is to hold down Song's operating cost per available seat mile, a key figure watched by analysts. Delta's was 10.3 cents in 2002. Spokeswoman Stacy Geagan said Song's goal is between 7 cents and 8 cents a mile.
JetBlue said in January its operating cost was 6.4 cents. Southwest's was 7.4 cents, while AirTran's was 8.5 cents. The discounters were among the few U.S. airlines to make money in 2002.
Other airlines are looking at starting low-fare units. United is working on a successor to its defunct Shuttle, and Virgin Group is looking at starting a low-price U.S. carrier -- a plan the British company says hinges on one or more existing U.S. airlines going out of business soon.
But while the industry is watching Song, it probably won't be a role model for other big carriers, Boyd said.
If Song works, it will be because the airline is focused on the East Coast, where Delta already is strong. It will focus on key cities such as New York, where demand is high for cheap transportation to Orlando and other Florida vacation spots.
There isn't enough demand to support a Song in smaller markets, Boyd said. "They won't be putting those planes in Syracuse."
Hamlin agreed. "If it's confined to a particular set of [large] markets, it may work," he said.
Todd Pack can be reached at [email protected] or 407-420-5407.
Copyright © 2003, Orlando Sentinel
By Todd Pack | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted April 13, 2003
Email this story to a friend
Printer friendly version
STORIES
Delta's new tune
Apr 13, 2003
March makeover. (ERIK S. LESSER FOR THE ORLANDO SENTINEL)
Apr 13, 2003
Delta Air Lines isn't the only big airline to launch a low-cost brand, but some experts say it could be one of the only carriers to make the concept work.
Song's gizmo-packed planes, low overhead and direct service from the Northeast to prime vacation spots such as Orlando could make it the most serious threat yet to bargain brands such as AirTran, JetBlue and Southwest, analysts said.
"There are people who'll say I'm crazy, but I believe Song is a major competitor," airline consultant Michael Boyd said.
Big airlines have always had trouble running successful small ones because their larger organizations aren't nearly as nimble or efficient as those of their low-cost competitors, said George Hamlin, a senior vice president of Washington-based Global Aviation Associates.
Bargain brands such as United Airlines' Shuttle and US Airways' MetroJet couldn't fly as cheaply and ended up among the first business lines cut when air travel fell after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, analysts said.
Delta's own Delta Express brand, launched in October 1996 to help the No. 3 airline fend off discounters on key Florida routes, is still flying but will be replaced by Song.
Start-up cost: $65 million
Florida is a crucial market for Delta, representing 30 percent of its domestic revenue, said Song's president, John Selvaggio.
But most of that revenue comes from tourists, who typically pay less for their tickets than do business travelers, who often pay a premium for booking at the last minute.
By keeping Song's operating costs down, the company hopes to make more money on those Florida leisure fares, helping the company overall.
Delta is spending $65 million to start a new airline from scratch rather than change Delta Express because it wanted its low-cost brand to have a distinct identity, one where travelers wouldn't expect amenities such as first-class that are associated with Delta's mainline service, said Tim Mapes, Song's managing director.
And Song is all about being distinctive -- from its vivid colors, to its melodious name to its entertainment system. The system, designed to one-up JetBlue, promises live TV plus a digital music library, video games and Internet access. JetBlue, which also flies between the Northeast and Florida, offers live satellite TV.
But Song aims to make money by lowering its costs, executives said.
It plans to keep its planes flying 12.7 hours a day, compared with 11.5 hours a day for Delta Express. Planes don't make money sitting at the gate.
Banning stand-by "buddy passes" for friends and families of employees and steering passengers to self-service kiosks will let Song get by with fewer workers at the airport.
Removing the first-class section and a galley from Song's Boeing 757s will let the airline increase capacity from 186 passengers to 199. U.S. regulations require one flight attendant for every 50 passengers, so limiting capacity to 199 will eliminate the need for an extra flight attendant on board the aircraft.
Using 36 of Delta's newest 757s will give Delta lower maintenance costs than it had on Delta Express, which flew older, smaller 737s. Delta Express' planes will go back to Delta's mainline service.
Pennies a mile
Delta's goal in all this is to hold down Song's operating cost per available seat mile, a key figure watched by analysts. Delta's was 10.3 cents in 2002. Spokeswoman Stacy Geagan said Song's goal is between 7 cents and 8 cents a mile.
JetBlue said in January its operating cost was 6.4 cents. Southwest's was 7.4 cents, while AirTran's was 8.5 cents. The discounters were among the few U.S. airlines to make money in 2002.
Other airlines are looking at starting low-fare units. United is working on a successor to its defunct Shuttle, and Virgin Group is looking at starting a low-price U.S. carrier -- a plan the British company says hinges on one or more existing U.S. airlines going out of business soon.
But while the industry is watching Song, it probably won't be a role model for other big carriers, Boyd said.
If Song works, it will be because the airline is focused on the East Coast, where Delta already is strong. It will focus on key cities such as New York, where demand is high for cheap transportation to Orlando and other Florida vacation spots.
There isn't enough demand to support a Song in smaller markets, Boyd said. "They won't be putting those planes in Syracuse."
Hamlin agreed. "If it's confined to a particular set of [large] markets, it may work," he said.
Todd Pack can be reached at [email protected] or 407-420-5407.
Copyright © 2003, Orlando Sentinel
Typhoon1244
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