Delta set to rumble

[Tim47SIP]

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/0304/07grinstein.html

Looks like G is ready to rumble. What do you think he will get? Just how wide will those throttles go. I am with the General, about 20% plus some QOL issues is my guess. Hope it works out well for the Delta mainline guys. Maybe some recalls in the future, I hope.
P.S. Sorry if this is old news, I didn't see it anywhere else.

 

[General Lee]

You know what most of us think about his "blunt talks"? We say, "Talk to the negotiators---they speak for us." And, of course Harry Ballance wants us to take cuts---he is retired and he wants his huge pension. He was a 777 Capt and just retired two years ago--making $300 an hour on the 777. Now, after he didn't take any cuts---he wants us to so he can make sure he still gets his $12,000 a month pension(that is after he got his $1.3 million lump sum). Makes sense to me.

So far Grinstein has not said anything about pay cuts for other employees---except the fact that "they are subsidizing the pilots!" Give me a break. Look at the numbers. Our Stews, for example, make industry standard---but that was before 9-11, and the most junior flight attendant is 7-8 years seniority. So, of the 14,000 flight attendants--how many do you think make close to Airtran or Jetblue stew wages? None--they all make more. But, when Grinstein compares us--the pilots---we are compared to the LCCs. The fact is that Grinstein doesn't want any more unions on the property---and he will go after the single union, and try to leave the others alone as much as he can. Sure, he did change their retirement (or what there was of it--most had very little), and medical premiums were increased for them---which will happen to us within 1 year due to a contract provision. Other than that, I believe the stews gave close to 4% in pay---but can fly more now to make up the difference. That is all I have heard for proposed cuts---except for our 30% cuts along with lifestyle stuff. Ridiculous.

Our MEC Chair--John Malone said it himself---"looks like they are in for all or nothing." Not smart when it comes to a contract and a union that cannot be ordered to do anything. Time to negotiate and take what you can now---we will probabaly give up to 20% in wages and then some lifestyle stuff now---but I am not a negotiator....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Andy]

General, I'm hoping that you guys are able to hold the line somewhere reasonable ... with profit sharing and stock options to compensate for wage reductions.
All the best to DALPA. My apologies on behalf of UALALPA for lowering the bar so low.

 

[General Lee]

Andy,

You guys were backed into a corner, like the AA guys. We have near $3 billion in cash, and will have a good Spring and Summer---and Grinstein obvoiusly thinks we are ok enough to buy ASA 25 RJs and add to our long term debt. This is a Delta problem, and should have a "Delta solution"---meaning everyone should participate somehow. The percentages are up to them. Take care and I hope you get recalled soon.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

I have my doubts that management is going to get a mid term contract concession at all the way GG is going. After listening to MEC Chairman John Malone at the ATL LEC meeting last week there appears to be no effort on DAL's part to negotiate. We put a generous offer of relief on the table and the company doesn't want it. Our position is fine, that's our offer, if you don't want what we have to offer we'll see you in section six. JM made it quite clear that we are not going to chase a deal. The impression I got was that the ball was definitely in the company's court and they need to come back down to a more reasonable position. The ALPA Economic Analysis team is quite capable, we've also hired independent Wallstreet analyst to get a second opinion. Barring another major terrorist event BK is highly unlikely. Any concession would primarily serve to lower the cost of borrowing and our negotiators have a good handle on just what dollar figure the capital markets are looking for, and it is no where near what the company is demanding. My guess is we would go up a little, but not much and the company will have to come down quite a bit, if not, our contract becomes amendable in May of next year, who knows when we'll have a TA.

 

[Ty Webb]

This is the last year for our contract at AirTran. . . . so, hang tough, General . . . . as our pay comes up, they won't be able to blame the competition . . . . . .

 

[Heavy Set]

Great idea to quote a RETIRED 777 Captain... How about he forgo 20-30% of his huge pension and his huge lump sum (probably $1.5 million or so)? What a joke - he is just concerned about his pension and not the solidarity of the pilot force - he's a SELL OUT! Go back to your golf game old man...

Grinchstein is in danger of pi$$ing off the pilots who are already inclined to give back some of their CONTRACTUALLY GUARANTEED salary... He is walking on a mine field...

ALL PILOTS have a stake in what happens to the Delta pilot wage rates (the rates against which other rates are measured) - MESA may lower the bar even further with its potential 737-300 operation. By the way, stock options are a joke and should NEVER be seen as a guarantee because they are tied to profits and growth rates - both of which can be controlled by DAL's management and their actions (they influence them with their own decisions)... For example, how valuable are UAL's stock options? Zip. Stock options should not be viewed as a good bargaining chip for pilots... That's an old management trick that was used often in the Internet BUST...

 

[storminpilot]

General Lee,  "We have near $3 billion in cash, and will have a good Spring and Summer---and Grinstein obvoiusly thinks we are ok enough to buy ASA 25 RJs and add to our long term debt."

Maybe DAL did that to get them ready for a sale??

This way DAL would have more cash to wait this out?

 

[rjcap]

Unless Grinstein has Chapter 11 filing in his back pocket he has absolutely no leverage on the mainline pilots. The pilots can wait till section 6 negotiations begin, sit back and enjoy the current contract for how ever long it takes to negotiate a new one.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

That is exactly what will happen. It will make the cut more palatable for those who are resisting the CEO. Not that the CEO is right, but I don't see him backing down.

After another 6-12 more months of banking the extra money the huge pay cut will be considered. A disappointing summer season will be the kicker.

 

[MedFlyer]

I think Grinstein already knows that he won't be getting any cuts from the pilots. For the sake of Wall Street, he has to put it out there that he wants big cuts. But in reality, I think he knows it won't happen.

His only goal now is to keep treading water until the next downturn puts DL to the edge although I'm not sure he'll live that long.

 

[General Lee]

This is all kinda stupid. He probably could get 15-20% in pay cuts right now, with some benies thrown in there too. What would he have to give up? Probably a two year contract extension, some snap back provisions, and maybe some stock etc....I don't really know, but it could save him $400-500 million a year right when he needs it the most. (I am not a negotiator) We aren't stupid and we want to see this company "thrive" again too---but we won't be "taken." And, all indications so far have shown that we are having a great Spring, and that the Summer will be good for most airlines. The recent gains in the economy and larger tax cuts and refunds will help add to the flying this year. Now if we could just get fuel prices down it would really help.....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DLslug]

Good thoughts, Gen!

Although, I don't think like others have indicated on this thread that Gerry will take anything less. He will be the laugh of Wall St. and seen as backing down. It almost seems like a no-win situation.

I'm with you (but not everybody is) that we could/should take the 10-20% now and reduce the pain now.

The stock options as previously noted are worthless and I would never accept anything like that in exchange for wages. Just ask any pre-97 employee about their $35 options now. (Current DL stock around $9)

How about a good will of foregoing the raise in May until something is worked out? I'll get it for this one. Hey, we bought a 767 for the company once!

All for now, DLslug

 

[spanky2]

Possible fuel on the Delta fire could happen if the RPM recall trigger happens soon + 4.5% pay raise in May 2004. The FEB numbers are not in yet cause they have to extract the Skywest, ACA, Chautagua, and code share data. Just looking at the raw Delta/DCI RPMs for FEB and adding to previous 3 months, the numbers are already within about 2.5%. Last quarter was within 1.6% with the extra RPMs. My guess, GG knows the trigger is gonna be close and recall is enivitable. The 4.5% pay raise is in the contract...who's gonna blink first?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Spanky - I dunno who would blink first, but here are some ideas.

(1) Shareholders
(2) Creditors
(3) Your english teacher. it is inevitable....

You are looking forward to a 4.5% raise !?! Isn't that like folks on the Titanic saying they are glad for the extra ice in their drinks?

Your company has to more than break even to survive, it has to make an unheard of profit just to pay the debt down. Every day that goes by with more debt on the books, is more altitude lost. Grinstien is already a rich man, other Delta employees can make more at other jobs, you are the only one at real, personal, risk.

General is sort of right, but the situation requires more than half measures. As this drags on, the 30% figure starts to look, low.

With the number of VP's that are bailing from Delta, I think the rats know more about the integrity of the ship than the passengers do...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Those of us in glass houses (i/e highest paid amongst our peers) should be hesitant to throw stones.

 

[dlredline]

I'm not always in the General's court, but I'm solidly with him in this fight. I'm not sure if Chapter 11 is really in the cards, as DAL mgt. subtley claims. But if it is, they'll surely use the horrible game plan from USAirways' play book. There, mgt. scared the daylights out of the U MEC with "give us concessions or we'll file BK". After the MEC blinked ("blinked" is a mild word, these guys completely rolled over) and conceeded, Siegal went ahead and filed BK 5 days later any way and ravished what little remained of the contract, including the pilot DB pension plan (I'm still stunned that this action hasn't drawn the media attention worthy of the Enron, MCI/Worldcom, Tyco, et. al. fiascos).

General, I truly wish the best for you and the Delta pilots (and their families). I agree that 20% and QOL items now would be reasonable. The fact that they've balked portends to darker motives. I hope DALPA holds the line with their reasonable concessions. If bankruptcy is in the cards for DAL, they'll file irregardless of anything the pilots conceed now. They've seen it work before (U).

Good luck, dude!

Red

 

[spanky2]

~~~^~~~,
Hey pal, how's the flying going? I am not getting a pay raise in May...that would be the for the pilots on the pay roll. As of today, the pay raise is set for 01 May 2004. It is likely that the RPM trigger recall will happen soon. Those 2 events will toss some gas on the fire for sure. I have no vote in this matter but I have an interest. Just like my best friend, The General, I am not a negotiator. I have an opinion that a pay concession is in the interest of Delta pilots to help the company...but the huge lack of trust is making it hard to swallow the amount that GG wants. Tough to ask Delta pilots to pay the debt on 100's of CRJs. DALPA negotiators are well aware and hopefully keeping a level head. They have many pilots to speak for...the senior 777 CA as well as TK. I would think DCI pilots have a interest as well. A wise man once said...

furlough me once, shame on you.
furlough me twice, shame on me.

 

[Newjetjockey]

58 Vice Presidents?!?!?!?

General, how many senior vice presidents and senior executive vice presidents are there at Delta? Does anyone know their payscales?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

58 Vice Presidents?!?!?!?

General, how many senior vice presidents and senior executive vice presidents are there at Delta? Does anyone know their payscales?

That sounds like a joke.

How many DAL vice presidents does it take to set up an off-shore management retirement account?

Where is Dennis Miller when you need him?