Delta RFP for Comair Flying.

[HoserASA]

Not trying to beat this to death, but here's an email I received fron a recently retired FAA controller (and Tower Chief):

Yeah I think the LEX thing was pretty lame.....you clear someone for takeoff....you WATCH them at least until you turn them over to departure......NO MATTER WHAT!!!

I can't believe it's a 17-year veteran......you think the guy would have had enough "close calls" to know better. And trying to blame it on having "only one person in the tower".....that has always been a dicey practice in my opinion, but if I had a nickel for every time I had to work by myself, I'd be a freakin millionaire!

Hoser

 

[737 Pylt]

Yer stupid. it's the pilots fault. Nobody elts.

More proof that being stupid, drinking and posting, don't mix!
737

 

[John Pennekamp]

More proof that being stupid, drinking and posting, don't mix!
737

See, 737, you and I CAN agree on something!

 

[737 Pylt]

See, 737, you and I CAN agree on something!

:laugh: LOL, don't tell anyone!:laugh:
737

 

[rogerwilcoout]

you people talk like we are the only ones that have stress. Get over it. We all have normal, everyday stress. doctors do. Cops do, firemen, my third ex wife. What you are opening up is another can of worms. You are saying that you fly when, under your definition and many excuses, you are not fit to fly. It is YOUR responsibility to wave the falg if you are unfit to fly! Stop all this nonsense now. Learn from the mistakes made by others andmove on.

 

[DrewBlows]

We all have normal, everyday stress.

Is your company in bankruptcy? Are you facing paycuts? Have you been furloughed this year? Are you facing possible furlough next year? Are you certain that your company will be in business this time next year?

This is not "everyday stress". A lot of us have to live with it. Some of us deal better than others. It's real easy to say "get over it" when you don't have to deal with it. The truth is that stress adversly affects performance (so much so that the FAA includes it in their IM SAFE model), exactly how much performance is affected is unknown.

As a side note I seriously doubt that you have as much stress as a fireman or a police officer.

 

[ASARJMan]

well, heck fire!! I guess we shouldn't be departing about half of our early departures anymore. nobody /not enough controllers in the tower to make it safe.

as ususal, you've jumped off the bridge without tying on the bugee cord (actually reading what I had said).

And you missed hosers point as well. Why do you slam people who don't buy into your crap? Your statement was kinda vague too.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[737 Pylt]

And you missed hosers point as well. Why do you slam people who don't buy into your crap? Your statement was kinda vague too.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

He looks for arguments when he can get them. The old statement.....Even negative attention is still attention!
737

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Delta grants Comair RFP extensionAugust 31, 2006


Delta has agreed to a request by Comair for a two-week extension to submit its response to a request for a proposal (RFP) to handle some of Delta’s regional service. The request was made following the Comair Flight 5191 accident on Sunday.
“The additional time will allow us to keep our focus for now exactly where it should be: on assisting the families of the passengers and crew involved in the accident of Flight 5191, on lending our full cooperation to the NTSB’s investigation in whatever way possible, and on supporting our employees,” said Comair President Don Bornhorst in a memo to Comair employees. “The outcome of this RFP is very important for our future. We appreciate Delta granting us this additional time to put our best effort forward, and we will work very hard to submit a competitive bid.”
Earlier this month, Delta asked regional airlines, including Comair, to submit proposals for regional flying opportunities for up to 143 aircraft as part of our restructuring process. The RFP includes service currently performed by Delta Connection carriers Chautauqua Airlines, Freedom Airlines and Shuttle America. Comair now will present its bid by Oct. 2. The other carriers have until Sept. 18 to respond.

 

[ASARJMan]

Delta grants Comair RFP extension
August 31, 2006
Delta has agreed to a request by Comair for a two-week extension to submit its response to a request for a proposal (RFP) to handle some of Delta’s regional service. .

Awww, now ain't that nice of old mother D! Creeps!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Hobit]

Would anyone of us allow a doctor to operate on us if we knew that he was under constant stress from possible loss of job and wondering how he was going to feed his family? After all, he should compartmentalize and not allow it to affect his job performance, right? Why should we expect pilots to be any different?

Nindiri,

Not to be confrontational but don't all of the scum bag, ambulance chasing lawyers add stress to doctors?

Sorry, I just had to post this so I could type 'SCUM BAG LAWYERS'. Frikin parasites! Dirts bags......

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10... ok Im better... but LAWYERS ARE SCUMBAGS!

 

[av8er2]

you people talk like we are the only ones that have stress. Get over it. We all have normal, everyday stress. doctors do. Cops do, firemen, my third ex wife. What you are opening up is another can of worms. You are saying that you fly when, under your definition and many excuses, you are not fit to fly. It is YOUR responsibility to wave the falg if you are unfit to fly! Stop all this nonsense now. Learn from the mistakes made by others andmove on.

It is this kind of thinking that will never change and make the airlines safer.

The FAA needs to look into the stress the airline are creating for pilots. If safety is #1, then allowing the airlines to do what they do then safety is 2nd.

 

[ttuite]

Is your company in bankruptcy? Are you facing paycuts? Have you been furloughed this year? Are you facing possible furlough next year? Are you certain that your company will be in business this time next year?

This is not "everyday stress". A lot of us have to live with it. Some of us deal better than others. It's real easy to say "get over it" when you don't have to deal with it. The truth is that stress adversly affects performance (so much so that the FAA includes it in their IM SAFE model), exactly how much performance is affected is unknown.

As a side note I seriously doubt that you have as much stress as a fireman or a police officer.

And of course it is MESA's fault that you have all of these problems of mismanagement at your airline. As a retired Police Officer I can tell you that the stress level at the airline is about 1/10th of the stress in the PD. Unfortunately it is that lack of stress that gets us in trouble. We tend to get complacent and little things such as bugging runway heading seem trivial until they bite you in the ass. The sad thing is that when a cop makes a series of mistakes usually only a small number of people die. When an airline pilot make a series of mistakes a lot of people die. And for this they pay 19K/year?

 

[joe_pilot]

... but LAWYERS ARE SCUMBAGS!

Until you need one.

 

[DrewBlows]

And of course it is MESA's fault that you have all of these problems of mismanagement at your airline.

I didn't say it was Mesa's fault or even imply such.

As a retired Police Officer I can tell you that the stress level at the airline is about 1/10th of the stress in the PD. Unfortunately it is that lack of stress that gets us in trouble.

I agree with you, but I think you are confusing acute stress with cronic stress. Without putting words in your mouth, I think your point is that some acute stress can actually improve performance. I agree with this point 100%. If you were to plot acute stress level against performance, I suspect that it would look something like a CL/AOA diagram, where lift increases with angle of attack right up until the stall point. Think about a normal flight, cruise is very uneventful and not very stressful (I've even seen some guys fall asleep, but that's a different discussion) then the approach and landing phase comes and no matter how tired you were in cruise you wake up and land the airplane. Throw in an engine failure and I bet your performance would be even better. (As anecdotal evidence, I believe that my best landing ever was after a return to the airport and an overweight landing, but I digress). You can add malfunction after malfunction and at some point you will become overloaded and your performance will plummet. Everyones break point will be different. I would think that most people could agree on this, but I've been wrong before.

The kind of stress that Comair pilots are facing right now (aside from the obvious, or maybe including the obvious) is chronic stress. We wake up every day (or middle of the night which is when scheduling calls me) and wonder how much longer our company will remain solvent. We can't plan for the future, must put off investments and life decisions. It constantly wears on you. I don't believe that this affects performance in a positive way, in fact the opposite is true. I think that chronic stress adversly affects performance. The problem is that I don't know exactly how it affects performance. I know that I seem to be more tired lately than I have been and try to get extra sleep, but aside from that I really don't know.

Anyway, I've said in a lot of words what someone else could have said in far fewer, but my point is that stress affects your performance. You don't have to believe it, but if you haven't experienced it and haven't studied it than your opinion (without evidence) means little.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If it helps any, I've spoken to people who have heard the tapes and the common thread is that the flight was routine and the crew was professional.

There were other factors involved this accident which are being investigated. Expect a bunch of revised charts for Lexington in the very near future.