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Delta Retirements?
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Launchpad
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Just curious if anyone has heard any information about retirements this Spring? Heard a rumor of a large number bailing out with the lump sum, but no idea if it is true.
yes, it's true. pick a number between 50 and 200... those are the rumors that I've heard. Sounds like June 1st may be shaping up better with the GATT rate.
To answer your question, it's all rumor and speculation regarding the number of early outs based on the gatt rate.
yes, it's true. pick a number between 50 and 200... those are the rumors that I've heard. Sounds like June 1st may be shaping up better with the GATT rate.
To answer your question, it's all rumor and speculation regarding the number of early outs based on the gatt rate.
On Your Six
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With the current negotiation climate the way it is, I have heard estimates closer to 300-500 pilots retiring... These are only estimates - not confirmed numbers.
It wouldn't surprise me, with Delta's crappy management and "supportive" management style, I bet the higher end could be reached...
It wouldn't surprise me, with Delta's crappy management and "supportive" management style, I bet the higher end could be reached...
General Lee
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Fins,
Thanks for bringing up the bankruptcy part, even though analysts still think that is way off. (still have too much cash and these next two quarters should be very good for us)
I have heard that Delta was caught last September when they didn't prepare for the amount of eventual retirements and were short over the holidays. So, this time around they are preparing for more. The numbers are probably between 50 and 600. Apparently relatively few have actually signed the papers now, but a huge amount has signed up for retirement seminars right after the vacation pay out on April 15th. That doesn't mean that they will bail, but they will be looking at it. We have quite a few Capts that do qualify for full retirement (25 years of service), and why they are still flying with us is beyond me, unless they just enjoy aviation or have 4 wives? The threats you mentioned probably does increase the chances that we will have more retirements, but the threat of pay cuts probably increases those chances even more. Our retirement is based off of "your 3 BEST years", not your 3 last years. With pay cuts, the BEST 3 are probably behind them.
Bye Bye---General Lee
PS---looks like the Gatt rate might be better(lower) June 1st--which would result in a higher lump sum. So, more pilots may wait until June 1st to bail rather than May 1st.
Thanks for bringing up the bankruptcy part, even though analysts still think that is way off. (still have too much cash and these next two quarters should be very good for us)
I have heard that Delta was caught last September when they didn't prepare for the amount of eventual retirements and were short over the holidays. So, this time around they are preparing for more. The numbers are probably between 50 and 600. Apparently relatively few have actually signed the papers now, but a huge amount has signed up for retirement seminars right after the vacation pay out on April 15th. That doesn't mean that they will bail, but they will be looking at it. We have quite a few Capts that do qualify for full retirement (25 years of service), and why they are still flying with us is beyond me, unless they just enjoy aviation or have 4 wives? The threats you mentioned probably does increase the chances that we will have more retirements, but the threat of pay cuts probably increases those chances even more. Our retirement is based off of "your 3 BEST years", not your 3 last years. With pay cuts, the BEST 3 are probably behind them.
Bye Bye---General Lee
PS---looks like the Gatt rate might be better(lower) June 1st--which would result in a higher lump sum. So, more pilots may wait until June 1st to bail rather than May 1st.
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~~~^~~~
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General :
The irony of it all. Pay cuts could force the retirement of 600 senior guys. Everyone else flows up the stove pipe to better equipment or better Q.O.L. and more than half the furloughees are pulled back in. ( After all, an upgrade is worth more than 30%. )
The other half the furloughees can put in time in the right seat of the CRJ700's for 40K a year. Comair should be able to afford second year pay with that 100 million they are making per year....
~~~^~~~
P.S. In all seriousness, ASA starting Delta pilots at first year pay is rediculous. The Delta pilots were Delta employees (just as I am) on their date of hire. Heck, several I have flown with have lower employee numbers that they were allowed to keep ( along with their 401K, retirement, and other benefits that require a "single employer" under IRS rules ). When I spoke with RL this morning I was told there are several more Delta guys coming over. I just wish we could offer them more....
The irony of it all. Pay cuts could force the retirement of 600 senior guys. Everyone else flows up the stove pipe to better equipment or better Q.O.L. and more than half the furloughees are pulled back in. ( After all, an upgrade is worth more than 30%. )
The other half the furloughees can put in time in the right seat of the CRJ700's for 40K a year. Comair should be able to afford second year pay with that 100 million they are making per year....
~~~^~~~
P.S. In all seriousness, ASA starting Delta pilots at first year pay is rediculous. The Delta pilots were Delta employees (just as I am) on their date of hire. Heck, several I have flown with have lower employee numbers that they were allowed to keep ( along with their 401K, retirement, and other benefits that require a "single employer" under IRS rules ). When I spoke with RL this morning I was told there are several more Delta guys coming over. I just wish we could offer them more....
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~~~^~~~
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TK :
My point is that Delta employees should not be treated as first year pilots by ASA. If your union was not so entrenched in this war between the "preferred" and "non preferred" pilots, they would use the "common desk rule" to challenge the treatment of Delta's employees at Delta's divisions.
And, at second year pay in the -700 a pilot can top $40K. I did about $48K in the right seat of the 200 before I upgraded.
It is not much, but it is better than what US Air's mainline guys are making at the moment.
~~~^~~~
My point is that Delta employees should not be treated as first year pilots by ASA. If your union was not so entrenched in this war between the "preferred" and "non preferred" pilots, they would use the "common desk rule" to challenge the treatment of Delta's employees at Delta's divisions.
And, at second year pay in the -700 a pilot can top $40K. I did about $48K in the right seat of the 200 before I upgraded.
It is not much, but it is better than what US Air's mainline guys are making at the moment.
~~~^~~~
General Lee
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Fins,
I can't believe it, you are actually coming together as a team player. Yes, I am happy that ASA has offered our furloughs jobs and that is VERY NICE of your company, and WILL be remembered.
As far as the upgrades for pay cuts deal---that is transparent--just like saying "we will give you growth for pay cuts." Those pilots at the bottom will be stuck with crappy pay compared to all of the others. But, if 600 or so do retire early (which I think is a high number)--that would result in major upgrades, which would help off set any pay cuts. Grinstein has been trying to "manage our expectations" lately with confusing offers--like "the cut would be 30% TOTAL--including benies and pay" and then later stating "no, we need 30% pay and then included benies on top of that." If he later goes to "no, we will only have to have 30% TOTAL" then some would be happier and say "Whew! Atleast it wasn't 30% plus the rest..." Then they would get more than they really needed. I really hope we can come to some compromise---we shall see.
Also, I agree with your statements that our guys shouldn't have to start at the bottom pay scale coming over to ASA from Delta---but I am sure they are still happy with a job offer. That is much appreciated I am sure.
Bye Bye--General Lee
I can't believe it, you are actually coming together as a team player. Yes, I am happy that ASA has offered our furloughs jobs and that is VERY NICE of your company, and WILL be remembered.
As far as the upgrades for pay cuts deal---that is transparent--just like saying "we will give you growth for pay cuts." Those pilots at the bottom will be stuck with crappy pay compared to all of the others. But, if 600 or so do retire early (which I think is a high number)--that would result in major upgrades, which would help off set any pay cuts. Grinstein has been trying to "manage our expectations" lately with confusing offers--like "the cut would be 30% TOTAL--including benies and pay" and then later stating "no, we need 30% pay and then included benies on top of that." If he later goes to "no, we will only have to have 30% TOTAL" then some would be happier and say "Whew! Atleast it wasn't 30% plus the rest..." Then they would get more than they really needed. I really hope we can come to some compromise---we shall see.
Also, I agree with your statements that our guys shouldn't have to start at the bottom pay scale coming over to ASA from Delta---but I am sure they are still happy with a job offer. That is much appreciated I am sure.
Bye Bye--General Lee
~~~^~~~ said:
I just did the math on the 700 pay scale for second year fo and i did not come close to 48k, how did you manage this?
I figured average of 80hr/month and 10hr/month underblock, that doesnt even break 40k.
Do you have a life at home? or do you live to fly? or maybe fly to live?
That is all in fun of course, I just want to know the basic hrs you were getting paid for.
I know your not counting 1.50/hr as income right? That is of course reimbursment of expenses.
Just curious,
Medeco
General Lee
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TBKANE,
Unfortunately I don't see that happening, but even bankrupt United is subsidizing their furloughs in the J4J deal with Skywest and Mesa---giving them the difference in pay between 1st and 2nd year. That is a great deal for those UAL furloughs, and I wish it would happen at DCI---but there are a lot of reasons why it is not. It doesn't sound like that would ever happen anytime soon with our furloughs, and we can't even get Comair on board to help our guys/gals out---only ASA and Chataqua have currently stepped up to the plate.
Xremeflyer,
You are really comparing apples to oranges. If you knew you would double your pay in your 2nd year at mainline, would you give up your date of hire/pay/travel? Most would in a heart beat. Pilots at mainline will always be paid more and have better benies--period. That is reality.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Unfortunately I don't see that happening, but even bankrupt United is subsidizing their furloughs in the J4J deal with Skywest and Mesa---giving them the difference in pay between 1st and 2nd year. That is a great deal for those UAL furloughs, and I wish it would happen at DCI---but there are a lot of reasons why it is not. It doesn't sound like that would ever happen anytime soon with our furloughs, and we can't even get Comair on board to help our guys/gals out---only ASA and Chataqua have currently stepped up to the plate.
Xremeflyer,
You are really comparing apples to oranges. If you knew you would double your pay in your 2nd year at mainline, would you give up your date of hire/pay/travel? Most would in a heart beat. Pilots at mainline will always be paid more and have better benies--period. That is reality.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
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XRMEFLYER said:
Why should you give-up your DOH for non-rev travel. You already possess a DAL (not ASA or Comair) PPR card. It does not make any sense to have to start over again with the same parent company.
I heard a rumor that some trigers had been pulled in the DAL contract that will require the recall of some furloughed pilots. Any truth to that?
FlyComAirJets
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- Joined
- Mar 13, 2002
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- 323
No Double Jeopardy
It's not just pay -- since you already went through probation at Delta and at ASA or Comair prior to that -- why should they put furloughees through probation a third time? It doesn't make much sense. Carry the logic all the way through. Anything else buys into the notion that we are separate companies.
It's not just pay -- since you already went through probation at Delta and at ASA or Comair prior to that -- why should they put furloughees through probation a third time? It doesn't make much sense. Carry the logic all the way through. Anything else buys into the notion that we are separate companies.
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