Delta post 88 million loss for October

[9rj9]

all of it

its all bs...
So what you improved. Geez, you lost your retirement, half your pay and all of your dignity. They want you be thankful as they recall pilots all the while stuffing their pockets with money. Suckers...
You should support the merger with those clowns running the show.

 

[FDJ2]

“The momentum that has been created by these achievements reinforces our confidence that we will emerge from bankruptcy as a strong, independent, stand-alone competitor in today’s global industry.”

I bet you he's right about that. It's not spin, it's how the system works. If DAL wasn't making significant strides in improving its financial performance, DAL would most likely not be able to emerge as a stand alone carrier (TWA/AAA). The better DAL's results, the less likely there will be a creditor revolt, the more likely the court will continue to give DAL management exclusivity, the more likely DAL will emerge as a stand alone.

 

[FDJ2]

its all bs...
So what you improved.

So it's not all bs.

Geez, you lost your retirement, half your pay and all of your dignity.

We went from a DB plan to a 9% DC plan and 2% 401K plan, we got a $2.1B claim and a $650M note to be divied up between approximately 6500 pilots (you do the math) and our pay is still better than many other non bankrupt carriers. Our LTD plan is industry leading, we maintained our work rules, we have built in minimum pay raises throughout our PWA and the duration of this deal is the shortest of any bankrupt carrier.

 

[AMANSWORLD]

What's going on, I thought they would do better.

Well one has to think that DAL meek profit gain in the last quarter was really just pure stupid luck. Oil prices were down and it was the busiest travel time of the year. Now we are in to fall and winter and fuel prices as a whole continue to rise as traffic is usually at it lowest point in the U.S. during these times. DAL really better start to look at diffrent alternatives across the board such as fleet common a/c, fleet common pay, and limiting management salaries with no bonuses or very little bonuses at that. Also raising the service standard in flight and get paid for it. IMO this is what will seperate DAL or the first carrier to do it from the others in way of class, service and revenue.

 

[Green]

Us airways is a hostile take over; NWA/DL is a winner, DAL/US is a loser. The french government wants to buy these airlines at any price.

Disagree with you there. IF and that's a big if, the government allows a US/DL merger the new airline could be a total powerhouse. They would virtually dominate many markets. I bet you would see fares stay low for a few years so Parker could prove it wasn't anti-competitive then they would creep up to reflect Dal's market dominance and translate into large profits.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

NWA made $37 million for the month. $52 mil before bankruptcy expenses.

 

[General Lee]

its all bs...
So what you improved. Geez, you lost your retirement, half your pay and all of your dignity. They want you be thankful as they recall pilots all the while stuffing their pockets with money. Suckers...
You should support the merger with those clowns running the show.

We lost our retirement? What about the $650 million we will split, plus the $2.1 billion claim? I guess I will dump all of my money from that into a boat and let it sit in the driveway..... Pay was cut in half, but it will move up, and we have the ability to move to larger planes to make more money. And, a merger would not help, no way.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Disagree with you there. IF and that's a big if, the government allows a US/DL merger the new airline could be a total powerhouse. They would virtually dominate many markets. I bet you would see fares stay low for a few years so Parker could prove it wasn't anti-competitive then they would creep up to reflect Dal's market dominance and translate into large profits.

I disagree with you big time. USAir brings nothing NEW to us. Nothing. Well, except a different fleet, disgruntled employees, and hubs that could bump ours. I don't think Oberstar will allow any mergers first of all, but if he did, it would have to complement our route structure, not overlap it. USAir has the same hubs (areas), and does Europe like we do. We would need someone with a large Asia presence, and one with hubs in the Midwest or NW. Sorry.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[chppr5]

amansworld said "Well one has to think that DAL meek profit gain in the last quarter was really just pure stupid luck. Oil prices were down and it was the busiest travel time of the year" Where were you during the 3rd qtr?? Oil prices where the highest they have ever been thru most of the qtr. I don't work for Delta, but they are making progress. May you s#*theads that keep making fun of what is lost during bk, never have to live thru it. I bet 99% of you were praying to a higher power to get on with UA/DAL/NW/US in the late 90's. (now all you jack asses can say " I never applied to any of them, I knew valuejet/frontier/jb/sw was going to be the place to be") GROW UP!! you are suppose to be professionals....management must see this s#@t and laugh all the way to the negotiating table, knowing that we are so divided and will never be pulling on the same side of the rope. Remember, there is always someone willing to do what we do for much less...so for the guys laughing now about the legacy's...keep checking your 6....you can't stay king forever!!

 

[800Dog]

its all bs...
So what you improved. Geez, you lost your retirement, half your pay and all of your dignity. They want you be thankful as they recall pilots all the while stuffing their pockets with money. Suckers...
You should support the merger with those clowns running the show.

And after all that, the Delta contract is superior to the USAirways/AMWest contract. Airlinepilotcentral.com. Talk about ugly? USAir rates are ugly!

 

[737 Pylt]

its all bs...
So what you improved. Geez, you lost your retirement, half your pay and all of your dignity. They want you be thankful as they recall pilots all the while stuffing their pockets with money. Suckers...
You should support the merger with those clowns running the show.

Too bad you're not selling stupid, you could make a lot of money!
I'll tell you what sport, you leave our contract to us, and you worry about your end of the world.
Next time before spouting your nut drainer, check some facts regarding our pay vs. other non BK carriers such as UAL, AAA, AWA.

737

 

[Noserider76]

Man, it's like Baghdad in here. Thanks Doug! Why don't we just crack some beers and throw all that merger paperwork in the fireplace.

 

[9rj9]

used again

Funny how the cronies at Delta have enlisted the workers to defend them against the merger. Those guys are hanging out for their stock options and bonus cash and will be gone next year, I hope they say thanks to the workers who they robbed.

 

[AMANSWORLD]

amansworld said "Well one has to think that DAL meek profit gain in the last quarter was really just pure stupid luck. Oil prices were down and it was the busiest travel time of the year" Where were you during the 3rd qtr?? Oil prices where the highest they have ever been thru most of the qtr. I don't work for Delta, but they are making progress. May you s#*theads that keep making fun of what is lost during bk, never have to live thru it. I bet 99% of you were praying to a higher power to get on with UA/DAL/NW/US in the late 90's. (now all you jack asses can say " I never applied to any of them, I knew valuejet/frontier/jb/sw was going to be the place to be") GROW UP!! you are suppose to be professionals....management must see this s#@t and laugh all the way to the negotiating table, knowing that we are so divided and will never be pulling on the same side of the rope. Remember, there is always someone willing to do what we do for much less...so for the guys laughing now about the legacy's...keep checking your 6....you can't stay king forever!!

For what its worth I do not work for any of the above mentioned carriers. However if you did your homework you would know the prices they paid last month for fuel were bought several quarters ago. Thier profit loss for a quarter is based on when they purchased to when they consumed-minus the diffrence. So from a numbers stand point they should have taken a much bigger hit. In essence they did not pay what the going fuel prices were for that given time frame that is what I am saying. They still have stores of fuel available from previous buys.

 

[lowecur]

NWA made $37M in Oct

Well it certainly makes DL mgt look a little incompetant at this point in time. That's quite a difference between the 2 carriers in BK right now, and this is something the creditors will look at. The rush to the transatlantic market pays dividends in season, but can be a real loser in the off season.

I hope most of you don't think this is the end of the negotiations. DL's creditors will look at the proposal in more detail over the next week or so before making another announcement. Because of the limited time frame, I believe DL will get an offer from another carrier or US will up their offer. If it all falls through, then I look for UAL to dance with someone in the not too distant future.

imp:​

 

[General Lee]

Well it certainly makes DL mgt look a little incompetant at this point in time. That's quite a difference between the 2 carriers in BK right now, and this is something the creditors will look at. The rush to the transatlantic market pays dividends in season, but can be a real loser in the off season.

I hope most of you don't think this is the end of the negotiations. DL's creditors will look at the proposal in more detail over the next week or so before making another announcement. Because of the limited time frame, I believe DL will get an offer from another carrier or US will up their offer. If it all falls through, then I look for UAL to dance with someone in the not too distant future.

imp:​

We were affected a lot more by the transatlantic bomb scare, but they were more affected by SARS. That is the way it goes. IF you think that was management's fault, then you are wrong.

The USAir/DL merge has too much overlap, and it probably won't go past the creditor committe, and very likely would not pass Congressional scrutiny or DOJ scrutiny. You seem to overlook that part. Oberstar didn't like the UAL/US merger, and he was just a committee member back then. He is now incharge, and his essay on mergers and why they should NOT happen is likely still his same view. The overlap concern for UAL/DL deals with Montana flying (and losing flying--would Southwest go to Great Falls or Butte?) and flying in the NW mainly, thanks to SLC and DEN hubs being close, and the lack of airlines flying to MT,ND, SD, ID, etc.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I disagree with you big time. USAir brings nothing NEW to us. Nothing. Well, except a different fleet, disgruntled employees, and hubs that could bump ours.

I don't think Oberstar will allow any mergers first of all, but if he did, it would have to complement our route structure, not overlap it. USAir has the same hubs (areas), and does Europe like we do. We would need someone with a large Asia presence, and one with hubs in the Midwest or NW.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I agree with you that USAir does not bring anything new that Delta actually WANTS. But they do bring some new things.

1) New management from the outside. Regulators will like this as Parker will try to further lower Delta costs
2) A work force with lower expections and pay to boot.
3) Philly and Phoenix.

Oberstar could allow this one with the proposed 10% reduction in routes by Parker. LCC's would take a bunch of gates right off the bat and lower prices in several markets. Of course no one at Delta or USAir actually wants the reduction, but it would effectively keep the competition keen in the East just as competition is being reduced and fares are rising.

SWA and Airtran and keeps the Southeast competitive. SWA and JetBlue have grown so much in the Northeast to make this deal doable without anti-trust concerns. (As compared to the failed UAL-USAir merger)

And no matter how you slice it, the combined company is more likely to survive and prosper than either alone.

I'm sorry General, I just don't see the depth and support for anti-trust issues from 7 years ago.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Not only the above, but I see the merger as another opportunity for "the Man" to keep labor off balance. They seldom miss those kinds of opportunities.

 

[General Lee]

I agree with you that USAir does not bring anything new that Delta actually WANTS. But they do bring some new things.

1) New management from the outside. Regulators will like this as Parker will try to further lower Delta costs
2) A work force with lower expections and pay to boot.
3) Philly and Phoenix.

Oberstar could allow this one with the proposed 10% reduction in routes by Parker. LCC's would take a bunch of gates right off the bat and lower prices in several markets. Of course no one at Delta or USAir actually wants the reduction, but it would effectively keep the competition keen in the East just as competition appears is being reduced and fares are rising.

SWA and Airtran and keeps the Southeast competitive. SWA and JetBlue have grown so much in the Northeast to make this deal doable without anti-trust concerns. (As compared to the failed UAL-USAir merger)

And no matter how you slice it, the combined company is more likely to survive and prosper than either alone.

I'm sorry General, I just don't see the depth and support for anti-trust issues from 7 years ago.

You don't? Back then there was just ONE hub or area that was close. Now there are many more--ATL/CLT (200nms a part and both fly to many cities in SE that no one else flies to), the NE (BOS/LGA/DCA area, along with Shuttles, all next to PHL and PIT), and the West (LAS/PHX/SLC---SLC and the Mormon Church--along with Sen Orin Hatch won't let that go away--you think JB could go in there to SLC? To Hawaii too? Do you know how many Mormons live in Hawaii? They go to SLC often apparently to Church functions etc..). You don't see that? Come on.

Better management? Grinstein has had his faults, but the new guys--Whitehurst, Bastian, and Hauenstein have brought this carrier back from the brink. Parker has been stalling with USAir and has too many internal messes to deal with---all those unions.

And, you say a combined carrier will survive? A newly resturcutred Delta will too, on it's own. Oberstar doesn't want the domino affect for mergers, since it will lead to fewer choices. That includes smaller cities, that would not attract JB, AT, or SW. You can't get around that. Many cities will lose some sort of service (and that means consumer choice--which he likes), and that won't float.

I obviously disagree. Mergers can work, but hostile ones usually do not (AWA/US was not hostile, US needed it), and this one has too much overlap anyway.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[HomerJ]

One of the reasons DL lost and NW made is DL is still too busy trying to put carriers the likes of JB out of business. Competition is fine, but some of the stuff DL management pulls is just plain stupid. Learn from AA already...build a fort around your main hub, protect that with all you've got, and don't try to fight the battle on too many fronts. (Yes, General and FDJ2, I know AA doesn't have the competition at their hub that you have at yours, but you get my point). Since you're probably holding hands using the same computer anyway, discuss a response amongst yourselves.