Delta Pilots Approved TA

[arthompson]

However you have to appreciate his honesty and his willingness to look at the final results and make a decision. One should never decide how they're going to vote till a TA is presented and can be looked at.

 

[anon]

You have to give GL credit for one thing. He had the nads to come back on flightinfo and state he voted "yes". It would have been reall easy to simply lie and say he voted "no".

 

[General Lee]

I am not lying to anyone. I never have. I looked at the whole thing and thought voting YES was the way to go. I have always wanted our furloughed pilots to get back ASAP, and I think they will, with about 1 in 4 accepting a recall. That will return the ones that want to come back. I used to slam scope, saying no more than 70 seats. Well, I looked at the deal, with the number of RJs allowed and what would happen if they try to furlough mainline pilots, and thought it was a good deal. Our RJs need a first class section anyway, and if management tries to furlough those seats go away, costing them even more money. The other issues seemed ok too, and the whole deal restricted the use of more 1113c processes, and no force mejeur clauses for expanding the RJ seats. It looked like a pretty good deal considering that we are in BK. And, I did tell the truth about my vote. I don't mind the pot shots, but how about those guys debating the actual issues. They can't.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DDpaysoff]

General Lee,

I, for one, appreciate your honesty. Thank you. Hopefully for all of us, the light in the end of the tunnel will start to shine.

ASAPuppy

yeah, he's real honest. How many times did he say he wouldn't vote for any scope erosion. Delta pilots are the reason Regional pilots have jobs. they should be proud of themselves, they created this mess.

But, hey, general, don't worry so much about your shortcomings, at least you put a few comair pilots out of jobs. They should have worked for less so they could have taken more of your flying and have been more attractive to mainline managers. Good luck w/ those stock options. LOL!

 

[DDpaysoff]

Don't try to sell me on this. Ask yourself this question:

How many mainline pilot jobs did this deal eliminate?

How many 500 hour wondersticks are going to gain employment based solely on this deal?

Somewhere out there a few private pilot students are thrilled that with a year or two of hard work they can be pilots on a 76 seat regional jet. The next generation regionals will be nothing but substite mainline flying with two-class 76-90 seat regional jets. They will find a couple desparate carriers to do the crap flying like we see saab's and dash 8's do today, w/ 50 seat RJ's, but the precedent has been set. What's GG going to tell you in the ATL crewroom tomorrow? No more Rj's on 2+ hour long flights. That's all connection carriers are doing it seems!

AA and CAL, get ready, the bar has been lowered.

 

[WSurf]

No more pay cuts. That 14% pay cut was the SAME pay cut we had last December, but now permanent. We will actually get pay raises starting Jan 07. We will also get large chunks of money via the $650 million in pension payments (divided into 6000 pilots) plus an additional $2.1 billion in equity, which at 20 cents to the dollar would really equal around $420 million, which divided by 6000 pilots could equal an additional $70,000 each before taxes. Add to that a 9% addition to a DC plan for each paycheck, in our own names, added to the 2% company matching on our 401Ks, makes it not too bad. To sum it up, we should get about $160,000 in cash, and extra 9% for a DC plan, and limits on RJs that needed a small first class section anyway. Not bad.


Bye Bye--General Lee

There you go again!!
1. You got pay Cuts
2. You gave up scope
3. You didn't strike

I guess its done with now! And yes you took pay cuts. You will always get a raise each year. Don't be dumb General, you took paycuts..... be it in the form of work rule changes, Bennie increases etc.
Boeing 777 Captains making less then SWA 737 Captains!!

Believe me I don't blame you for voting 'yes'! Now you know that Delta is just like every other airline.... no more no less!

However..... Mark my words, they will be back! This cost cut is based on 60.00 barrel of oil!! They will be back for your wallets, and again you guys will grab your ankles!

 

[Beanie]

I am not lying to anyone. I never have. I looked at the whole thing and thought voting YES was the way to go. I have always wanted our furloughed pilots to get back ASAP, and I think they will, with about 1 in 4 accepting a recall. That will return the ones that want to come back. I used to slam scope, saying no more than 70 seats. Well, I looked at the deal, with the number of RJs allowed and what would happen if they try to furlough mainline pilots, and thought it was a good deal. Our RJs need a first class section anyway, and if management tries to furlough those seats go away, costing them even more money. The other issues seemed ok too, and the whole deal restricted the use of more 1113c processes, and no force mejeur clauses for expanding the RJ seats. It looked like a pretty good deal considering that we are in BK. And, I did tell the truth about my vote. I don't mind the pot shots, but how about those guys debating the actual issues. They can't.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Because a debate requires that you pick a side a keep it. You don't seem to grasp this.

 

[D'Angelo]

Because a debate requires that you pick a side a keep it. You don't seem to grasp this.

Actually a debate means you can look at the issues and make the best decision possible. Why all the anger for guys doing whats best? Its basically how this type of things always go down. Guys get all emotional at first doing their chest pounding. The vocal minority tries to get everyone fired up. People then use logic and reasoning and vote what they think is best for their career. It doesnt matter whats best for everyone elses career, we are in a dog fight. This is exactly how things went down at comair and it was a beautiful day when people finally used their heads not their anger.

 

[WSurf]

Problem with General is that he does way too much Chest Pounding! Maybe after management comes back for more pay cuts he will become a much more humble individual!http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_37/b3950069_mz017.htm

 

[Beanie]

Actually a debate means you can look at the issues and make the best decision possible. Why all the anger for guys doing whats best? Its basically how this type of things always go down. Guys get all emotional at first doing their chest pounding. The vocal minority tries to get everyone fired up. People then use logic and reasoning and vote what they think is best for their career. It doesnt matter whats best for everyone elses career, we are in a dog fight. This is exactly how things went down at comair and it was a beautiful day when people finally used their heads not their anger.

No, that is not what a debate means. You just described decision making. A debate means a formal presentation of and opposition to a stated proposition, usually followed by a vote. Intelligent people get the proposition first, read it, and then take their position for or against. If you read Generals posts, He admits he took his position, defended it, THEN read the proposition and changed his position and voted. This is not the way intelligent people debate. Don't be confused by which box he checked on the ballot. He can vote however he wants. His shortcomings and subsequent backlash come from how he represents himself on this board and and his views on the TA, among many other skewed views, when he had not even read it. He intellectually castrated himself. He as lost any and all credibility and his opinions no longer carry any weight. It is obvious that he does no real research on issues, so his thoughts are baseless and without support. In his case, past words are no indication of future actions or positions.

 

[Beanie]

However you have to appreciate his honesty and his willingness to look at the final results and make a decision. One should never decide how they're going to vote till a TA is presented and can be looked at.

And one shouldn't shoot their mouth off about how they and the other 50.1% of the pilot group are going to vote until a TA is presented and can be looked at.

 

[D'Angelo]

And one shouldn't shoot their mouth off about how they and the other 50.1% of the pilot group are going to vote until a TA is presented and can be looked at.

Yes I agree. No one should take a final position one way or another til the TA is presented. You can still have an opinon before the fact however. You then read the TA and state your final opinion based on all available information. Then the true debate begins. The pilots simply read the TA and decided it was in their best intrest to ratify it.

 

[Beanie]

D'angelo, it is difficult to have an opinion about something that you know little to nothing about. That is not an opinion. That is called being ignorant. You are missing the point that is being made about General Lee. It is not the TA, it is not the vote, it is not opinions, its not debates. It is about walking what you are talking. If he didn't know about the TA, then he should have kept his big mouth shut. That is as easy as I can make it.

 

[D'Angelo]

Why? Everyone can have an opinion then they can change it. Its really that simple. The delta guys were intelligent. They didnt listen to you union blowhards rooting them on for destruction. We all know the real motive. you wanted delta out of the picture so you could grow more. Sorry your gonna have to grow the old fashioned way

 

[ReverseSensing]

Enough already...

General Lee:

In 7,000+ posts, this may be the one thing you are most correct about:

Anyway, I don't have to explain anymore to you.

So do us all a favor and stop trying.

Thanks.

 

[Beanie]

I don't belong to a union, nor do I fly 121 anymore. I don't care who gets what. Your arguments lack any insight or thought and are completely un-original. You present no real stimulating ideas or counter points, so this discussion is over.

 

[benjakes]

ok,

See GL above. He says "our RJ's" need first class. I am dying. First, he reduces scope. now he acknoledges ASA/COMAIR ARE HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS. I need to go to church this week!

 

[General Lee]

ok,

See GL above. He says "our RJ's" need first class. I am dying. First, he reduces scope. now he acknoledges ASA/COMAIR ARE HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS. I need to go to church this week!

Yes you do. When it comes down to it and United has first class in their multitude of RJs, it probably makes sense that we should too. Ofcourse United doesn't have any RJs over 70 seats, but that is outweighed by the unlimited number of larger RJs they can have. Atleast we have some restrictions, even though some can carry an extra 6 pax. I do feel sorry for our platinum medallion folks for having to endure some of those long RJ flights. It must be murder..... (nowhere did I say you were my brothers or sisters, but I would say those ASA pilots have been nice to some of our pilots in the past. Thank You, and I guess we are all a part of this big old Delta family. Group hug? Handshake?)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DDpaysoff]

I got your group hug right here!

 

[General Lee]

I got your group hug right here!

I don't go that way, sorry. Try Ben Jakes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[John Pennekamp]

It's funny how a few days after the TA passes, DAL announces an operating PROFIT for the month of April. Wonder why they held on to that one until the vote was over?

I also wonder why the $290m per year the pilots gave back is such a big deal. At $1.5B per quarter loss, $290M will only last the company a few days... a drop in the bucket.