Delta Memo looking at new narrowbody aircraft

[Jet Wash]

SWA can thank United & Delta for their current pay rates. UAL & DAL's contracts set the bar in 2000. Unfortunately they both had to take huge pay cuts while SWA was still making money so they didn't have to take the massive cut in pay.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

And the Dal and Ual pilots can thank the Nwa pilots for holding our ground in 98. Your welcome....

 

[General Lee]

Contract negotiation time folks.

Pilot's contract up in 2012. Article states aircraft starting in 2013.

Straight out of management playbook. Dangle "growth aircraft" in front of the group.

So, if we don't go for the "bait" and instead go for pay and scope, will the planes just get older and older? Then what will management do? The planes really are getting older. I guess pax don't care......How about we call their bluff? And it would be replacement aircraft, not "growth". They need to replace a bunch of domestic birds.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Yup. But, we have 116 737s over here at Alaska if Anderson wants to expedite putting the planes to use for Delta! 737-900ERs supposedly on the way too! Should help out with the 757-200 replacement.

There is some truth to that, but then again why take planes away from the West Coast, leaving it bare again just like when DL bought Western Airlines? The 757s are getting older (some NWA birds are really old), and infact the latest article stated DL just bought 5 used 757s on the market. Hopefully they will be around for a long time. Great plane.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[JohnDoe]

So, if we don't go for the "bait" and instead go for pay and scope, will the planes just get older and older? Bye Bye--General Lee

Are you really that dense? Not taking the bait is entirely the point. If they are truly going to be replacing the aging aircraft, they will do so regardless of what pay and scope we go for right?

The timing of this release is the suspect point. It screams contract negotiation tactics 101.

Since you can't even envision that as a possibility, it entirely explains how mangagement has been able to get what they have from you. I am sure you will be in the group to give up scope for pay.

 

[General Lee]

Are you really that dense? Not taking the bait is entirely the point. If they are truly going to be replacing the aging aircraft, they will do so regardless of what pay and scope we go for right?

The timing of this release is the suspect point. It screams contract negotiation tactics 101.

Since you can't even envision that as a possibility, it entirely explains how mangagement has been able to get what they have from you. I am sure you will be in the group to give up scope for pay.

Sure, the timing is suspect, but the planes are getting old John. They are. That will not change. And, if these are replacement planes, not growth planes, how can they dangle that in front of us? Explain that? Passengers want newer planes that smell nice. That is normal, and employees normally don't have to pay for that in good time. Here is another article you can read a few times to rethink your theory that was not well thought out. (and, NO, I won't be voting for anything that gives up one ounce of scope. NOPE) PSST---John, you got "owned" again.


Bloomberg: Delta Air Plans to Order 200 Narrow-Body Jets, Seeks Options for 200 More
By Mary Jane Credeur - Jan 13, 2011 8:15 PM ET

Delta May Order 200 Narrow Jets

Delta Air Lines Inc. plans to order 100 to 200 narrow-body jets and seek options for 200 more, a possible record purchase as it moves to retire some of the oldest planes in the U.S. industry.

Deliveries may begin as soon as 2013 after a request for proposals was sent to “several” planemakers last month, according to a posting yesterday for employees on Atlanta-based Delta’s internal website. Airbus SAS, Boeing Co. and Bombardier Inc. are the biggest commercial-jet makers.

Ordering the full 200 planes would be a record, topping the plan unveiled this week by India’s IndiGo Airlines to buy 180 Airbus A320s with a list value of $15 billion. Delta would shed some of its oldest jets, including DC-9s that average 34 years of age and are among the most elderly aircraft in U.S. fleets.

“None of the other U.S. majors have planes as old as Delta,” said Jeff Straebler, a debt strategist at RBS Securities Inc. in Stamford, Connecticut. “The big costs on older aircraft are maintenance and fuel, and it was time for Delta to look at this.”

Delta, the world’s second-biggest carrier, traditionally bought Boeing jets until adding Airbus jets in its 2008 purchase of Northwest Airlines. The competitors now also may include Bombardier, whose new CSeries is designed to compete with the smallest single-aisle jets from Boeing and Airbus.

Opening for Airbus?

“There’s a better chance for Airbus now that Delta no longer exclusively flies Boeing aircraft,” Straebler said. “Delta’s big enough that they could continue with both Airbus and Boeing families, and maybe even the CSeries.”

Boeing’s 737 and the A320 are twin-engine models seating about 125 to 185 people. Their list prices, on which airlines typically get a discount, range from about $63 million to $95 million, depending on the version. Buying 200 737-800s, the top- selling U.S. jet, would cost $16.2 billion at list prices.

The CSeries seats 100 to 145 people and is intended to replace older models such as the DC-9, which was built by a Boeing predecessor. Montreal-based Bombardier is targeting the end of 2013 for the first deliveries and said last year that the list price would be $52.4 million to $60.9 million.

Delta will consider “large, medium and small” narrow-body jets, Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson said yesterday in a separate weekly recorded message to employees.

“It’s important we take a very long-term view of our fleet,” Anderson said.

Aging Aircraft

A new jet order will replace planes including DC-9s that average 34 years old, Boeing 757-200s that are 18 years old and A320s that are 16 years old, Nat Pieper, vice president of fleet strategy and transactions, said on Delta’s website posting. The new planes would be used on domestic routes.

Trebor Banstetter, a Delta spokesman, confirmed the posting’s authenticity and said the company declined to comment further on its fleet plans.

“Airbus talks to customers and potential customers worldwide on an ongoing basis,” said Mary Anne Greczyn, a spokeswoman in Washington for the Toulouse, France-based company. “When it comes down to specific conversations about fleet needs and how Airbus can meet those needs, the content of those conversations, and even the existence of those conversations, are confidential.”


A spokesman for Chicago-based Boeing wasn’t available to comment yesterday.

Delta also has been acquiring used jets, including five Boeing 757-200s and 33 MD-90s, and will continue to look for additional used planes, Pieper said.

“We’ll evaluate all our options,” he wrote.

Single-aisle jets made up more than 80 percent of Delta’s fleet, which totaled 821 planes as of September. Delta said in October it was keeping its order for 18 of Boeing’s wide-body 787 Dreamliners, a new plane now running three years behind schedule, while deferring deliveries into the next decade.

A Delta order of narrow-body jets also would boost engine makers that are readying a new generation of engines that are about 15 percent more fuel efficient and quieter than the models they would supplant.

The geared turbofan engine from United Technologies Corp.’s Pratt & Whitney and the Leap-X from CFM International, the venture of General Electric Co. and Safran SA of France, are the choices on the announced A320 unveiled by Airbus last month. The CSeries will run on Pratt & Whitney’s geared turbofan.

Current 737s use engines from CFM, while existing A320 models use engines from International Aero Engines, a venture led by Pratt & Whitney and London-based Rolls-Royce Group Plc.

Delta rose 10 cents to $12.61 yesterday in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares fell 1.9 percent in the 12 months through yesterday.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

General,

Replacing airframes is not growth.

Gup

 

[JohnDoe]

Sure, the timing is suspect, but the planes are getting old John. They are. That will not change. PSST---John, you got "owned" again.

And that is the point I am making. This announcement is suspect because I do not believe that these are all simply replacement for aging aircraft at mainline. They say that now, then next thing we know dci is flying around in those replacement for aging aircraft.

The fact that you believe this press release hook, line, and sinker says all there is to say.

You can't even concieve that this is negotiations 101. They put out a press release that states replacement aircraft will be flown by delta employees during contract negotiation time. Couldn't possibly be to try and influence scope expectations could it. Not a chance they are looking to put some kind of "c" series or jungle jet variation at dci is there...

 

[General Lee]

General,

Replacing airframes is not growth.

Gup

Ummmm, YEAH, that is what I have been trying to relay to good ole John Doe. He is SLOW.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

And that is the point I am making. This announcement is suspect because I do not believe that these are all simply replacement for aging aircraft at mainline. They say that now, then next thing we know dci is flying around in those replacement for aging aircraft.

The fact that you believe this press release hook, line, and sinker says all there is to say.

You can't even concieve that this is negotiations 101. They put out a press release that states replacement aircraft will be flown by delta employees during contract negotiation time. Couldn't possibly be to try and influence scope expectations could it. Not a chance they are looking to put some kind of "c" series or jungle jet variation at dci is there...

John,

Just stop. Really. You are looking worse and worse. No, this isn't negotiations 101 yet, because they haven't said anything about new planes as growth. Replacing old planes with newer planes is nice for passengers and for management who get fuel savings and mx savings. If they are the same size or type as current planes, that doesn't mean much pay wise. They are REPLACEMENT planes, not growth John. And Delta will not have the stagnation that other airlines will have, like the SWA/AT merger. DL will be retiring up to 500 or more Captains per year starting in the next few years, which will generate huge movement. Regardless John, those planes are not going to be dangled in front of us, and we will do great pay wise and focus on scope too. You try to have a better day now, ya hear?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JohnDoe]

They are REPLACEMENT planes, not growth John. And Delta will not have the stagnation that other airlines will have, like the SWA/AT merger. Bye Bye--General Lee

Stagnation at SWA/AT: now there is a prolific post from you. Got it SWA guys? Stagnation coming your way. So sayeth the general.

You keep right on believing that ceo unconditionally that those aircraft will only be flown by delta employees.

I understand entirely what you are saying. You say they are only replacements, and that they will never be flown by anybody else, 'cause that's what the ceo says.

I say time will tell and you are misguided for putting such absolute faith in some press release.

It's scary to think that someone would put 100% trust in a statement from a ceo that says they will be flown by delta only. They keep adding 70 seaters to dci.

Unlike you, I am not going to believe every press release I see simply because "the ceo said it." There is far too much history to not hold things suspect. "line in the sand..." "we do not believe....." "it is not in their interest...." "if we don't give this _____, then _______"

 

[General Lee]

Stagnation at SWA/AT: now there is a prolific post from you. Got it SWA guys? Stagnation coming your way. So sayeth the general.

You keep right on believing that ceo unconditionally that those aircraft will only be flown by delta employees.

I understand entirely what you are saying. You say they are only replacements, and that they will never be flown by anybody else, 'cause that's what the ceo says.

I say time will tell and you are misguided for putting such absolute faith in some press release.

It's scary to think that someone would put 100% trust in a statement from a ceo that says they will be flown by delta only. They keep adding 70 seaters to dci.

Unlike you, I am not going to believe every press release I see simply because "the ceo said it." There is far too much history to not hold things suspect. "line in the sand..." "we do not believe....." "it is not in their interest...." "if we don't give this _____, then _______"

Tell me John, what expansion will there be for the SWA and AT guys? They are getting 737-800s to replace (again John, REPLACE) 737-700 orders. Nothing new there. Then add younger AT guys to the SWA mix, and that means stagnation. It's been stated on here that they may have a max of 150 retirements per year. With young AT guys entering the mix, that won't help much. If you know otherwise (which you do not), then state it.

As far as what the CEO says, it does carry weight. No, you don't have to believe everything he says, but public statements can be hard to get away from. This wasn't a backroom rumor, it was stated to the press. Sure, you can't hold people to that always, but it is also hard to back away from that.

And, If you think 100+ seaters are going to DCI, keep wishing it. Go for it John, YOU CAN DO IT!!! I can see you really think it will happen, and if you sit down, squint really hard, maybe you will see it happen, and you will soil your shorts too. That's pretty much your argument. Good one, John.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[regionalcap]

Can you guys at least pick one of the threads to argue back and forth? It's confusing going back and forth between the two. :smash:

 

[contrail67]

General,

Replacing airframes is not growth.

Gup

Replacing airframes is not growth and buying your type rating to get hired is not PFT.

 

[titans10]

Ouch!!