Delta MD90s

[poor2thecore]

So how far is this rumor of getting 20-30 MD90s from being a reality? If it does happen, where will they be going? SLC? One would think with the DL Connection expansion in LAX the folks in ATL are testing the water for a potential LAX mainline expansion when/if they come online?

 

[Kharma Police]

So how far is this rumor of getting 20-30 MD90s from being a reality? If it does happen, where will they be going? SLC? One would think with the DL Connection expansion in LAX the folks in ATL are testing the water for a potential LAX mainline expansion when/if they come online?

Where would they get them, are there alot of MD-90s moth-balled?

 

[poor2thecore]

I've heard from an operator in China.

 

[PuffDriver]

So how far is this rumor of getting 20-30 MD90s from being a reality? If it does happen, where will they be going? SLC? One would think with the DL Connection expansion in LAX the folks in ATL are testing the water for a potential LAX mainline expansion when/if they come online?

It is a real deal. From the horses mouth we are in negotiations for up to 23 md 90s with China Eastern and China Southern. Other than that, not much to expand upon.

 

[Heavy Set]

I talked to a buddy over at Delta and he said a Chinese operator is looking to get rid of them, China Eastern or China Northern (?). He said if they do get them some would be used in Atlanta and some would go to the West Coast. They are probably cheaper to buy than a new 100 seater these days, and Delta already knows how to operate them. He said if they get them it would take a few months to convert them from China version to Delta version.

 

[Hutchman]

I read an article in the Wall Street Journal that China is forcing it's airlines to get rid of several hundred flights a day due to infrastructure limitations.

 

[Spooky 2]

I talked to a buddy over at Delta and he said a Chinese operator is looking to get rid of them, China Eastern or China Northern (?). He said if they do get them some would be used in Atlanta and some would go to the West Coast. They are probably cheaper to buy than a new 100 seater these days, and Delta already knows how to operate them. He said if they get them it would take a few months to convert them from China version to Delta version.

This should be interesting to watch as "once upon a time" Delta swore off buying any more used aircraft period after having gone through a nightmare having bought some used B737-300's from Western Pacific (I think?) back in the early 90's. I know they have just done a deal on the 757's from AA/TWA so this may be an indicator that things have changed. I was recently involved in proposed purchase of a China Air B767-200ER. All of the records were in Cantonese which made it all but impossible to get through an FAA Conformity check, thus killing the deal. Of course if you could get one airplane through the process it would pave the way for the rest. If by chance the aircraft were owned by a US leasing company like ILF, they may have been maintained to Part 121 standards which would make things a lot easier,

 

[acarpe3448]

We are going into a trade deal with them! We are going to be giving the Chineese our 50 seat RJs that we dont want in trade for the MD90s!

 

[poor2thecore]

We are going into a trade deal with them! We are going to be giving the Chineese our 50 seat RJs that we dont want in trade for the MD90s!

That's and even better rumor!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

We are going into a trade deal with them! We are going to be giving the Chineese our 50 seat RJs that we dont want in trade for the MD90s!

Per the big dog's mouth (SD) in his last talk down in ops in ATL, that is true. They are looking to trade 3 CRJ 50 seaters for 1 MD-90.

It's good hearing it from the big man's mouth, but I'd like to see it pan out.

 

[Heavy Set]

Per the big dog's mouth (SD) in his last talk down in ops in ATL, that is true. They are looking to trade 3 CRJ 50 seaters for 1 MD-90.

It's good hearing it from the big man's mouth, but I'd like to see it pan out.

That sounds like a great way to ruin their airline industry over there, give them 50 seat RJs. That is a good deal for the US of A and Delta. Gain mainline planes, and ruin China's aviation infrastructure. Cool!

 

[IronCityBlue]

I read an article in the Wall Street Journal that China is forcing it's airlines to get rid of several hundred flights a day due to infrastructure limitations.

That's dumb. When your infrastructure is strained it means there is untapped demand and you need to dump capacity into the system as fast as you can and hope for it to magically fix itself! :smash:

 

[IronCityBlue]

We are going into a trade deal with them! We are going to be giving the Chineese our 50 seat RJs that we dont want in trade for the MD90s!

How big of a MX pig is the MD-90? Are they at least fuel efficient? What about adding to yet another orphaned fleet type? Do cheap leases make up for all other costs? I'm not knocking Delta, I'm just trying to figure out how this can be better than getting a good deal on 737-700's or 800's. They will snap up your used RJ's regardless.

 

[michael707767]

How big of a MX pig is the MD-90? Are they at least fuel efficient? What about adding to yet another orphaned fleet type? Do cheap leases make up for all other costs? I'm not knocking Delta, I'm just trying to figure out how this can be better than getting a good deal on 737-700's or 800's. They will snap up your used RJ's regardless.

the 90 mx problems are a thing of the past. The 90 has a pretty good dispatch rate now. This would not be adding another fleet type....we already operate the 90. So why not add more? The operating costs of the MD-90 are below that of the 800. Keep in mind, part of your overall cost of an airplane has to include the cost of ownership or lease costs. The 787 for example may have much lower operating costs than a 767ER, but when you factor in other financial costs, the 767ER is still very competitive.

 

[~~~^~~~]

MD-90 is reliable from what I hear and MDD built them like tanks. They burn 15% less fuel than an 88 have a fuselage plug and carry a few more people.

The MD-90 costs the same to operate as a 737-800 until you start stretching out the flight. I don't know where the real advantage starts and the Boeing's more efficient wing starts to make it a whole lot better airplane. But is it $50,000,000.00 better on a short flight?

Don't know how real the rumor is, but seems like Delta is thinking outside the box and coming up with some good ideas since no one else is going to be in the market for a small handful of an odd type.

 

[B6 Tech]

the 90 mx problems are a thing of the past. The 90 has a pretty good dispatch rate now. This would not be adding another fleet type....we already operate the 90. So why not add more? The operating costs of the MD-90 are below that of the 800. Keep in mind, part of your overall cost of an airplane has to include the cost of ownership or lease costs. The 787 for example may have much lower operating costs than a 767ER, but when you factor in other financial costs, the 767ER is still very competitive.

Dude, you're getting -90's from CHINA. I'll give you 6 months to a year just to iron the B.S. out of those "stellar" aircraft. Used to drink with a tech rep that did work for Hinian, and the dirt floor hangar stories, finishing jobs with extra parts, and outright FAR violations made me shutter. And that was 5 years ago. Yeah, enjoy those cheap 90's.... Hope you don't kill anyone in the process

 

[Heavy Set]

Dude, you're getting -90's from CHINA. I'll give you 6 months to a year just to iron the B.S. out of those "stellar" aircraft. Used to drink with a tech rep that did work for Hinian, and the dirt floor hangar stories, finishing jobs with extra parts, and outright FAR violations made me shutter. And that was 5 years ago. Yeah, enjoy those cheap 90's.... Hope you don't kill anyone in the process

I think you underestimate the FAA and Delta in general. And, I am sure they would be in good shape just to fly them over from China to the US. Talk about cheap planes, how did those E190s work out for you a few months ago? You had to send them to BNA for work, right? Did you have to rebuild them while you were at it? Why didn't you just get A318s? Stupid.

 

[michael707767]

Dude, you're getting -90's from CHINA. I'll give you 6 months to a year just to iron the B.S. out of those "stellar" aircraft. Used to drink with a tech rep that did work for Hinian, and the dirt floor hangar stories, finishing jobs with extra parts, and outright FAR violations made me shutter. And that was 5 years ago. Yeah, enjoy those cheap 90's.... Hope you don't kill anyone in the process

yeah, cause they have been falling out of the sky over in China.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Dude, you're getting -90's from CHINA. I'll give you 6 months to a year just to iron the B.S. out of those "stellar" aircraft. Used to drink with a tech rep that did work for Hinian, and the dirt floor hangar stories, finishing jobs with extra parts, and outright FAR violations made me shutter. And that was 5 years ago. Yeah, enjoy those cheap 90's.... Hope you don't kill anyone in the process

Dude, I heard the same the lead-based paint they use on dolls and toys over there.... they used that same paint on their MD-90's!! Yikes!!

 

[SoCentralRain]

Dude, I heard the same the lead-based paint they use on dolls and toys over there.... they used that same paint on their MD-90's!! Yikes!!

Then don't put the thing in your mouth.

 

[Spooky 2]

I'll go back to my previous post and say that the conformity checks on these aircraft will be very time and labor intensive. We have a mechnic in our operation who worked for Delta as the acceptance Tech Ops rep in Seattle (Boeing), it's his opinion that these aircraft are almost impossible to bring under the FAA rules, unless of course the FAA is willing to give a wink and a nod to the process. I don't think so.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

Here's what I got from a senior check airman last week regarding these 90s.

Like most of you guys said there are 20-30 of them from a Chinese operator that presently would get 3 of our now onselete 50 seat RJs for one of there 90s. These RJs are already losing money for us and parked.

These 90s are very low time and would fit right in to our current fleet.

We need that sized lift ASAP. So, a used 90 could conceivably be on line within six months. It'd take years to get in line for more 737s or even an Airbus.

It was once a "slam dunk" but two other operators are also interested. Delta is sending a team to China this week to continue negotiations.

Re: 787s:
Not as high of a priority as one would believe. We can modernize our 767 ERs for $5M. A new 787 is close to $40M.

Re 100 seaters:
We really don't want the EMB, but the 737-700 is just too expensive and not suitable for our needs as a 100 seat replacement. We don't want them for longer haul the way SWA uses many of their's. IF Boeing can make a 737 "lite" we'd buy 100+ of them.

Re:777s
There are 8-10 777-200s being parked by a middle eastern carrier we are in negotiations for. We want them all and if successful, would get our 777 fleet to 25 -30 by 2010. (I know the AA/CAL/UA guys are saying BFD, 25 777s) but for us here and potential new hires and growth here it's be huge.

There is a big VP pow wow in Sept to discuss future fleet, route and staffing needs.


75 new hires a month until at least March (maybe not December though.

 

[Spooky 2]

Okay I'll go out on a limb here and say that Delta will never see one, much less 20 to 30 MD90' and I hope I'm wrong here, as I'm tired of riding around in these RJ's. Look up confrmity on Google and then think of how the Chinese may apply it to these airframes. Even the best airlines in China and that's an oxymoran in it's self, do not maintain their aircraft to the strictest Boeing / FAA / Delta standards and the fact that it is so difficult to document makes this a very improbable business plan. Of course it can be done and if anyone could do it, Delta Tech Ops would be the one to do it. Having said that, with their man power at an all time low and so many talented people that have left it, calls into question the business plan for this project. I will be happy of I'm wrong, but if I was just a betting man, I would bet against this deal ever happening.

 

[Benhuntn]

Since Delta and others started sending their jets to China for major overhaul the Feds have found 520,000 counterfit parts on US aircraft. Just think what a jet will look like when it has flown for yrs in China. Good luck flying them.

 

[Spooky 2]

Might be wrong but I don't think Delta has outsourced to China. The rest of your stement I agree with completely.

 

[Benhuntn]

My source Business Week Aug 10th

 

[higherflyer]

...Used to drink with a tech rep that did work for Hinian, and the dirt floor hangar stories, finishing jobs with extra parts, and outright FAR violations made me shutter.

What were you shuttering? The bar where you were drinking?

Re: 787s:
A new 787 is close to $40M.

Maybe that is why the 787 is selling so well... I'll take a few for $40M.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

Our MD-88s are overhauled by AeroMexico. Saw the warranty sticker on a log book last week.

 

[RJAA]

Re: 787s:
Not as high of a priority as one would believe. We can modernize our 767 ERs for $5M. A new 787 is close to $40M.

Re 100 seaters:
We really don't want the EMB, but the 737-700 is just too expensive and not suitable for our needs as a 100 seat replacement. We don't want them for longer haul the way SWA uses many of their's. IF Boeing can make a 737 "lite" we'd buy 100+ of them.

Re:777s
There are 8-10 777-200s being parked by a middle eastern carrier we are in negotiations for. We want them all and if successful, would get our 777 fleet to 25 -30 by 2010. (I know the AA/CAL/UA guys are saying BFD, 25 777s) but for us here and potential new hires and growth here it's be huge.

There is a big VP pow wow in Sept to discuss future fleet, route and staffing needs.


75 new hires a month until at least March (maybe not December though.

I wonder how the B787 which burns 20% less fuel compare with the "modernized B763ER" in the current environment and the fuel cost. Modernizing the B763ER would be like polishing a turd in the few years when there are over 700 buyers lined up to buy them with supposedly a better passenger comfort as well.

I am not aware of any middle eastern carrier getting ready to park any B777s out there. There were rumors in the past Air India wouldn't be able to accept the delivery of their new B777-200LRs due to internal turmoil and all the Delta fans were getting excited but Air India has taken these delivery and flying for BOM-JFK non-stop. This is old info. There were also rumors of Alitalia B777s might be up for a sale but it does sound like Alitalia will find their way to survive at this point. These birds would have been another different B777 engine variant for Delta.

 

[Truckdriver]

How big of a MX pig is the MD-90? Are they at least fuel efficient? What about adding to yet another orphaned fleet type? Do cheap leases make up for all other costs? I'm not knocking Delta, I'm just trying to figure out how this can be better than getting a good deal on 737-700's or 800's. They will snap up your used RJ's regardless.

The MD-90 has International Aero V2500 engines on it. If I remember right, that is the same engine as what you have on your 320's. It isn't the fuel hog that people think it is. No extra fleet type since we already have some, and if you can trade some RJ's for it, why not.