Delta LCC - "Song Air" - Is that true?

[Heavy Set]

I have heard a rumor (not verified) that the new Delta low cost carrier (LCC) will be called "Song Air." It is based on the phrase "take a flight FOR A SONG (cheap)."

C'mon.... Does that sound like a good name to you? What kind of "Ad Wizzard" came up with that name? You have got to be kidding me... I have tested this new name with at least 10 people and it was unanimous - they HATED it.

How much money did Delta spend to create that name? A couple million? How about some other suggested names like:

1. Cheap Air (ala Cheaper)
2. Welfare Air
3. Hazzard County Air - Daisy as the FA...
4. Prison Air (bread and water)
5. Cattle Air
6. Bus Air
7. Tight Air
8. Low Expectatons Air
9. Cramped Air
10. DVT Air

Didn't Air Canada create some music-related subsidiaries like "Tango," "Jazz," etc.? So, how creative is Song Air?

 

[Bill Nelson]

On Headline news yesterday, they refered to Delta's new LCC as "Song." They said that was the unofficial name. I don't know if that means that is has not been confirmed by Delta or if Delta is waiting to hear how bad the name flops before confirming it so they can change it if need be.

I would bet they are thinking real hard about it now. Even the news guys were laughing at it. Thats too bad. I hope they get it off the ground and save a great airline.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Rumor here has it that the first aircraft off the Airbus line after Delta's new LCC arrives at the gate will be named: Song Sung Blue-- at jetBlue Airways.

 

[Lifter]

Delta to reveal strategy to defeat low-cost rivals
January 28, 2003 4:07:00 PM ET


By Julie MacIntosh

NEW YORK, Jan 28 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) will spell out on Wednesday the details on its start-up low- fare airline, which it hopes will steal travelers back from increasingly popular low-cost carriers like Southwest Airlines Inc.(LUV)

The new airline, which Time Magazine reported will be named "Song," will replace Delta's Express carrier and account in its first year of operation for about one-tenth of Delta's total capacity, as it focuses on the East Coast.

Delta, the No. 3 U.S. air carrier, has refused to comment on the new airline's name. But Delta has said its offshoot will focus this spring on routes between Boston, New York, Fort Lauderdale and Orlando.

The major U.S. carriers are all struggling to win customers back from lower-fare airlines like Southwest, JetBlue Airways Corp.,(JBLU) and, particularly in Delta's southern U.S. markets, AirTran Holdings Inc. (AAI).

All three of those airlines have reported profits recently. But cheap air fares, heavy costs and the sour economy have wreaked havoc on their far-bigger competitors, sending their losses into the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Delta reported a $363 million loss for its most recent quarter and said it does not expect to return to profitability this year.

Delta's announcement last fall it would launch the low-cost unit drew skepticism from Wall Street analysts, who said the Atlanta-based carrier was likely to run into roadblocks with its "airline within an airline" format. Similar endeavors by Delta's rivals have failed miserably.

"It's never worked before, but the airlines have to do something drastic to compete with these point-to-point carriers," said Blaylock & Partners analyst Raymond Neidl. "They have to try something."

DESPERATE MEASURES

The new airline, which will have headquarters in Atlanta, will initially fly Boeing 757s with 199 coach seats between the Northeast and Florida, expanding its reach throughout the year.

New York-based JetBlue, which flies along those routes, would be a direct competitor. But Neidl said JetBlue was probably far from "quaking in its boots" because its smaller aircraft and cheaper employees should position it as the winner on the cost-structure side.

Delta will unveil a simpler fare structure as part of its plan for the new unit. Delta President Fred Reid said in November that uniform, stable ticket prices were a key aspect of the carrier's makeup.

Delta plans to keep costs manageable by mirroring its low- cost rivals' quick aircraft turnaround times, having fewer flight attendants and using its aircraft for more hours each day. But Neidl said Delta's plans to use workers with more seniority than most employees at other start-ups raised concerns about costs.

Delta executives said last fall they expected the new carrier to start turning profits in 2004. REUTERS

© 2003 Reuters

 

[banned username 2]

Its true... announced today... that marketing guy should be fired... what a dumb name!

Delta launching low-fare Song

New airline will start with East Coast Service, competing with JetBlue and AirTran.
January 29, 2003: 6:55 AM EST

ATLANTA (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines took an aggressive step forward Wednesday in its efforts to woo cost-conscious customers, unveiling a new low-fare airline named "Song" that will start flights up and down the East Coast in April, ratcheting up the fight with low-budget competitors.

The new offshoot, which will use a simplified structure with one-way fares ranging from $79 to $299, will replace Delta's Express unit, and should account for about 10 percent of Delta's total capacity in its first year of operation.

Delta, the No. 3 U.S. air carrier, said Song will initially fly Boeing 757s with 199 coach seats on routes between the Northeast and Florida. The company said it plans to operate 144 daily Song flights by October. The major U.S. carriers are all struggling to win customers back from lower-fare, profitable airlines like Southwest, JetBlue Airways Corp., and, particularly in Delta's southern U.S. markets, AirTran Holdings Inc..

Song, headquartered in Atlanta, will compete directly with New York-based JetBlue, even offering in-flight satellite television. Delta said it would keep Song's costs down by turning around its airplanes quickly, using fewer flight attendants, and using its planes for 13.2 hours each day.

 

[Midnight Mike]

Nice website, though the color they picked is terrible, the proposed service on the airplanes is better than that of Delta itself. If it works, expect the rest of the airlines to copy, not the airline within an airline, but giving passengers more than just a seat.

* 33 inches of legroom
* Inseat internet connection
* On demand pay-per-view
* Gate connection information delivered right to your seat
* Multiplayer interactive video games, allows game play between passengers.
* Inflight shopping
and more, sheesh, passengers will forget they are flying.....

http://www.songair.com


Mike

 

[General Lee]

Blue Bayou,

I know the name stinks---no doubt in that---but the game plan is for real, and it is aimed right at you. The 757's will be lime green---which will make them easy to see and remember --"retro style" I guess? Song will fly out of all three NYC airports---which means options for passengers in NYC. Jetblue's video unit advantage is gone. Song's will have DirectTV, along with Email access, and a large SONG library of music. Passengers will be able to Purchase food----which better be good if they have to buy it. (like America West's deal-----I am sure that people will be able to view it first--then select) And, passengers get frequent flyer miles on Delta, NW, CO, and all other Skyteam members. So, you fly Jetblue a lot, you get a free trip to Long Beach. You fly Song a lot----you get a free ticket to anywhere in Europe on Delta, anywhere in Asia on NW, and Rio on CO. The fares will be lower---$79 to $299-- with self Check in kiosks. The turns will be in 50 mins, and the planes flown more hours throughout the day. There will be 1 less flight attendant, and more seats with more room. The pilots will be paid the same (everyone who says that is the competitive disadvantage is pulling your chain----the two pilots together will be paid an extra $35 an hour total---that's like $.60 a passenger---and there will be more passengers--199, and one less flight attendant---the analysts should take a pay cut too)

This will be an interesting match. If people can get past the name (which is easy to remember) it should hurt Jetblue and be more profitable than Express which broke even. Regardless, atleast Delta is trying something. American can't even come up with an idea, and United has the Shuttle coming back.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Midnight Mike]

The features will not be installed into the various aircraft until
October/2003, add to that the expected delays, will probably not see all of the lovely features until 2004.

 

[dogg]

Here is the problem, "Song" and "Shuttle"(if it comes back) will be run by the same stodgy, unimaginative mangers that currently managed their respective airlines into the mess that they are in. And it will be staffed by the same unhappy employees that curently staff Delta and United. So the same problems will exist only the potential for yields will be greatly reduced. And the bit about fly on "Song" and get free trips to Europe. People that fly on Jet blue, Air Tran ,SWA arent usually in the going to Europe market. But heck, they are trying something anyway.......

 

[airlinepilot]

The Details...

Look in the USA TODAY Bus. section.....details are in there. One of the things is Delta says they plan on "turning" the 757 in just 50 minutes even at airport like LGA......Maybe they should call it Dream Airways......
Like I told an FA the other day...you know what you call a flight that is not late arriving or leaving LGA......CANCELLED!

 

[General Lee]

Dogg,

No, that really isn't correct. Song will be another entity, run by separate people. John Slavaggio, who did run Midway for awhile I believe, is running the show. He is focused on this and does not concern himself with mainline. He is serious about taking on Jetblue, and according to USAToday---there will be 36 757's going up and down the East Coast, and eventually Las Vegas and maybe Phoenix will be added. The key to all of this for the New Yorkers is "choice." They will have a choice of which airports in NY to fly out of---something Jetblue does not give. The planes will be as nice or nicer than Jetblues. The liveTV will be there, along with the ability(Ok, some of the new amenities will be ready in OCTOBER---better than never) to make your own play list of songs to listen to---which sounds cool. I believe the new stuff available in October is Email access---which is also new. There will be a choice of meals (sandwiches etc.) to buy. There will also be a choice of airlines to use your frequent flyer miles---something Jetblue absolutely does not have. Regardless, Jetblue will atleast lose some passengers to Song---which doesn't help your cause. And remember when the press said that Delta Express wasn't successful and that they had to cut it by 50% after 9-11? Well, the reason they had to cut it by 50% was because Delta decided to furlough pilots after 9-11 (even though we had a no furlough clause...don't get me started..) and they decided to furlough 400 November 1st, 2001. Well, guess what? Most of the bottom 400 pilots were at Express as 737 FO's. We lost most of the FO's, and had to cancel 50% of the flights. Most of the flights were jammed full, but really breaking even and keeping market share. Our 757's at song will bring in some revenue and hurt Jetblue.

Airlinepilot,

Sure, 50 minute turns at LGA may be tough. But, you neglect to understand that a certain amount of "taxi time" is built into every flight plan. They will add 45 min to the overall time and easily make ontime arrivals and departures. I have seen 45 min on the flight plan at EWR, LAX, ATL, etc. Just wait and see.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fredflyer]

Boy, general, I don't know what you're more excited about, the fact that Delta may be setting up a profitable airline, or the fact that jetBlue might get hurt by this.

 

[rapidD]

fredflyer

It's one and the same, dude. Those of us DAL guys on the streets want our jobs back. If it comes at your expense, thats all part of the business. Believe me, we all know the industry has changed, maybe forever. But its a dog eat dog world and there are a lot of experienced aviators, good guys, with a great big scarlet letter (or widget) on our foreheads. Five years ago, most of you would have given your left testicle to fly for Delta. Lets see what happens when JB has to start paying the bill for their jets and their maintenance. No ill will wished on anybody. We're all in this together. But a lot of us with superb flying resumes have been flipping burgers at MacDonalds. We want our seats back.

starlifterflyer

 

[Lumber Yak]

Jet Blue won't necessarily be hurt - they will likely continue to fill airplanes. Perhaps its rate of GROWTH will be reduced - it will still grow and likely continue to do well. However, Delta's market share won't ERODE quite as fast... Southwest has not been hurt on the East Coast by AirTran's growth or Jet Blue's expansion - the market size (or pie) has increased. Southwest continues to fill all of its seats...

It's like Vegas - every new casino brings more gamblers to the town and everyone benefits. It's all about GROWTH RATES...

Should be interesting to watch...

 

[Race Pilot]

Lets see what happens when JB has to start paying the bill for their jets

Here we go with that again. Well, imitation is the best form of flattery! I have a lot of friends at Delta and wish them luck with their new adventure. The folks flying for Song just need to remember that although the Live TV and larger seats are nice, it's really the customer service that keeps JetBlue customers returning. BTW, it's my understanding that not only will Song charge for the food, but also the other amenities as well, at least the TV and email part. Good luck.

 

[fredflyer]

I just think that the mentality that one airline has to fail for another to succeed is not totally accurate.

Actually, it was sort of funny the other day, after we had a real problem with a "rough" sort of passenger, the captain I was with said "with our prices, we're not taking market share from Delta, we're taking it from Greyhound"

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

OK General Lee, first I'd like to wish SONG the very best. But let's address these issues: The only cost savings the new carrier is hoping to reap is from higher aircraft utilization. They will still be strapped by the high cost of labor-- Pilots, gate-agents, maintenance, and rampers; with the exception of the FAs, who will be the happy-cheery furloughed ones making half what they used to. Frequent-flyer miles only work if you can easily redeem them-- that is why the news today has Delta looking at possible legal ramifications. JetBlue will be moving on to Chicago this spring/summer, leaving a well-established service to Florida to weather the summer storms. My feeling is that all this is too little, too late for Delta who should've addressed these LCCs immediately from the get-go. Bring on the threat of war and a sluggish economy, the price of starting this new venture could be quite costly. In the end, if Delta doesn't change it's entire price structure and ways of doing business to match this potentially successful start-up, they may be competing with THEMSELVES!!!!

 

[General Lee]

Blue Bayou,

You are talking tough for an airline with only 30 airplanes. You are wrong on many fronts. First of all, only the pilots will have the same pay scales. Everyone else---mechanics, gate agents, flight attendants--all have to go through special interviews to even get on with Song. Then, their wages are a lot less----in line with yours. If you think the pilot's wages are going to bring down Song, you are crazy. Let's look at it this way----let's say the pilots took a 20% pay cut. The Capt would lose about $50 an hour, and the 757 FO would lose $25 an hour. So, Song is saving $75 an hour on a 3 hour flight from LGA (or JFK, or EWR---choices remember--choices for Pax) to FLL---so total savings is $225. What happens if you have to hold or go-around? That savings is gone. So how much will you save in 1 year by saving $225 per flight? What, about $2 or $3mil, and that will make or break an airline? Gimmee a break. You then stated something about Iraq and how that will affect us. Well, currently we are flying lots and lots of Military charters on our MD-11's and 777's. We are making more money now on those than if they were flying Pax to Europe because the Government pays us very well to take Generals over to Kuwait. The fuel issue is a non event here because we hedge over 70% of our fuel----we have a better fuel hedging system than anyone else. How is your hedging program doing? In USAToday we were called the "analyst favorite" because we have a lot more flexibility than the other majors---with only one union (well paid though), and RJ's that can be put on routes that are thin. We have $2.6 bil in cash, and another $5 Bil we can mortgage. We have an answer to your airline--Song--that will take people away from you. We are interested in picking up any routes or slots that United or USAir want to give up. Our frequent flyer program, even with this lawsuit deal, is a heck of alot better than yours, and this illegal codeshare with NW and CO will bring us business pax that want to sit in all of the airlines crown rooms etc. We will ride this out, and you will finally have some competition that will stunt your growth. Don't count out someone who is a lot bigger than you and has a lot more money and only one union.

Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

General Lee is correct.

Delta has a lot of cash and tremendous flexibility. The fact that Song will offer comparable fares to Jetblue, similar inflight service (TVs, leather seats, etc.) and the choice of three different airports in the NYC area is very compelling. UAL is broke and may be broken further. USAirways is broke and may disappear. Airtran is growing but does not have a lot of excess cash. Jet Blue is growing but cannot expect its growth rate to continue forever - Southwest never had to compete with Delta in the same way that Jet Blue will. The East Coast will become TRENCH WARFARE for the airlines.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Jet Blue product. Delta can leverage its lucrative European network to subsidize its Song project. Don't count Delta out when the going gets tough.... Cash is king!


Good luck to all!

 

[fredflyer]

You know what I find funny, in other posts and threads, when jetBlue guys praise their company and say how well they think it will do, they get accused of drinking the cool-aid (blue juice) and being naive by guys at other airlines; but now that Delta has come up with essentially a carbon-copy of jetBlue, maybe with a few alleged improvements, some of those same people are swimming in Song cool-aid.