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Delta Hits Trigger: 1000+ Recalls

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FurloughedAgain

Cabin Heating & Air Tech.
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Posts
1,657
This is wonderful news!!! Congratulations for the 1000+ furloughed Delta Air Lines pilots who will hopefully soon be returning to their rightful place in the cockpit.

In the months following 09/11 over ten-thousand pilots industrywide had the brass-ring ripped from their hands. It is extremely gratifying to see that Delta's passenger numbers have recovered to pre-09/11 levels -- and sustained that level for over four months!!!

Hopefully this is the beginning of a wider industry recovery which will generate the recall of furloughees at the other major airlines.

I also hope -- and frankly expect -- that the Air Line Pilots Association puts the recall of these furloughees and their continued job security at the FOREFRONT of any negotiations that might be required during the restructuring of Delta Air Lines. Job security should be ALPA's Job #1!

Good luck and congratulations to the Delta furloughees!

April 29, 2004
The pilots union at Delta Air Lines on Thursday said it did not expect the possible recall of 1,000 furloughed pilots to complicate talks with the airline, which is seeking to reduce pilot costs.

A pick-up in passenger traffic could prompt the recall of the pilots, who were furloughed after the September 11, 2001, attacks reduced demand for air travel.

The move comes as a result of an arbitration ruling that determined furloughed pilots could return to their jobs should passenger volumes return to pre-disaster levels.

"The number of passengers flying on the planes is the same as it was before they laid the pilots off, so by definition there should be the same number of pilot jobs available going forward," said Chris Renkel, a spokesman for Delta's unit of the Air Line Pilots Association.

Atlanta-based Delta has about 7,700 pilots. It had cited a "force majeure" clause in the union's contract as justification for the furloughs.

Airline labor agreements contain force majeure clauses that give carriers the flexibility to lay off workers without adhering to strict seniority provisions during unexpected crises.

US airlines used the September 11 attacks and the war in Iraq -- and the subsequent decline in air travel -- as justification for thousands of layoffs, setting off a number of fights with unions.

Renkel said the level of revenue passenger miles, or traffic, that would prompt the recalls was triggered at the end of March. The union said it has informed the company of the trigger and has requested a response.

A Delta spokeswoman said the carrier will review the information and discuss it with ALPA but would not discuss the information publicly.

Delta has said it needs 30 percent pay cuts from its pilots, the highest paid in the industry. The union has offered to take pay cuts of 9 percent and forfeit a 4.5 percent raise that is set to take effect May 1. No negotiating sessions are currently scheduled, the union said.

The recall could add another layer of complexity to an already delicate situation between the union and the airline, some experts said. Winning a pilot recall could mean the union will have to concede elsewhere in its negotiations with the company.

"It does complicate things," said George Hopkins, a professor at Western Illinois University who wrote a book on the Air Line Pilots Association.

"I have a hunch that ALPA, when it starts weighing its priorities, will weigh the recall of these furloughed pilots at the top of its concerns and then be willing to make some concessions elsewhere," he said.

Still, Bill Rochelle, an attorney at Fulbright & Jaworski, said increasing capacity could cover the incremental rise in pilot costs.

"Both sides are playing 'bet the company,' so the stakes can't really be any higher," Rochelle said. "So I don't know that the added degree of complexity makes it any significantly less likely or difficult to reach a deal."
 
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Two issues.

1. How many furloughees would be returned per month (return rate)? All of the lame press reports assume 1000+ furloughees returned "at one time" which inflates the cost figures... Probably not going to happen that way. I heard that a DALPA spokeswoman mentioned something like 30-50 furloughees recalled PER MONTH likely - but that hasn't been confirmed....

2. Where would they put them with 30-40 airplanes parked in the scortching desert?

My main question is how will this development impact pilot/management contract negotiations? Sure, it's encouraging news, but how it will play out in this pre-bankruptcy stage is the real question...

Good luck to all involved!
 
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They agreed to the target -- if the numbers are truly back to pre 09/11 levels then there is obviously a need to add more larger aircraft and begin to slowly increase capacity.

An aircraft is a revenue-generation machine, so if marketing uses a little bit of common sense I'm certain they can find city-pairs that are currently being flown by RJs which could support more mainline frequency (thus allowing the RJ to be reallocated to developing markets).

I have no doubt that by returning some of the aircraft from the desert, metered capacity increases could occur which would provide both jobs for the furloughees and much needed revenue for the company.

This is good news regardless.
 
They agreed to the target -- if the numbers are truly back to pre 09/11 levels then there is obviously a need to add more larger aircraft and begin to slowly increase capacity

You need to obviously put the crack pipe down.
 
It's time to put mainline back on the consistently oversold RJ routes and put furloughees back to work. It's time to create positions to go to at ML instead of securing a future at a commuter. Hopefully this will lead to some kind of opportunity to get furloughs working and a unified list, and make the RJDC obsolete.

They agreed to the target -- if the numbers are truly back to pre 09/11 levels then there is obviously a need to add more larger aircraft and begin to slowly increase capacity.
Or atleast move that capacity more efficiently.
 
FurloughedAgain said:
They agreed to the target -- if the numbers are truly back to pre 09/11 levels then there is obviously a need to add more larger aircraft and begin to slowly increase capacity.

An aircraft is a revenue-generation machine, so if marketing uses a little bit of common sense I'm certain they can find city-pairs that are currently being flown by RJs which could support more mainline frequency (thus allowing the RJ to be reallocated to developing markets).

I have no doubt that by returning some of the aircraft from the desert, metered capacity increases could occur which would provide both jobs for the furloughees and much needed revenue for the company.

This is good news regardless.

I am curious if DAL recalls all, then is the company going to want more then the 30% or will they just end up filing CHP 11 to get relief on the contract?

I want all pilots to be recalled and LESS RJ flying, but if it means some pilots end up furloughed for a few more years so the company can gain financial strength then maybe its worth it.
 
wms said:
It's time to put mainline back on the consistently oversold RJ routes and put furloughees back to work. It's time to create positions to go to at ML instead of securing a future at a commuter. Hopefully this will lead to some kind of opportunity to get furloughs working and a unified list, and make the RJDC obsolete.

That is it in a nutshell....excellent post my friend.
 
Has this been confiremed by ALPA or anyone who actually knows the details?
 
Recall trigger has been hit and confirmed by ALPA, however I'm not holding my breathe about being recalled either.

Item 1. RPM Trigger - Furlough Recall Update:
ALPA has reviewed the latest RPM data under the Force Majeure grievance and has concluded that the RPM trigger for setting a furlough recall schedule has been met. As is the normal process with contract issues, grievances and subsequent settlements, we have notified Flight Operations management that we are ready to proceed with this matter and have requested a response from them. We will let you know as soon as we hear from them.
We understand the need for expedience in this matter and will do everything we can to keep the process moving forward.

During the time it took me to originally post the above, I received this. Monkeys may fly out of my butt.

Furlough Recall Update
April 30, 2004

Today, Delta informed ALPA that management agrees with the Association that the furlough recall trigger has been met, per the arbitrator's ruling. We will be meeting with management in the near future to discuss the recall.
 
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rjcap said:
You need to obviously put the crack pipe down.

T-Gates said:
WTF? Go sign your RJDC check......

I see that being gone from Airlink has improved your humor... that's some pretty funny shiznit! ;)
Trust me, you're not missing much except the standard daily beatings.

Congratulations and good luck to the DAL furloughees, I sincerely hope that DAL management acts in good faith to bring everyone back quickly.
 
Lear70 said:
I see that being gone from Airlink has improved your humor... that's some pretty funny shiznit! ;)
Trust me, you're not missing much except the standard daily beatings.

Thanks Man! Sometimes I miss that crazy reserve crew room!
;)
 
AApilot--
I want all pilots to be recalled and LESS RJ flying, but if it means some pilots end up furloughed for a few more years so the company can gain financial strength then maybe its worth it. [/B][/QUOTE]

I assume you aren't furloughed from AA.TC
 
rjcap said:
You need to obviously put the crack pipe down.

Really??
The current rpm's indicate that there is just as much traffic flying the skies on DAL as there was in the busiest months in aviation history. Where are all those passengers?? on rj's!
Its time that DAL marketing stop with 10 flights a day on an rj, and adding capacity. AMR is increasing capacity in DFW, while all DAL does is shrink and add regional jets. Who would the paying passenger want to ride on, an AA mainline jet or a DAL 70 seat rj out to the west coast??
Sorry, but I'm raising the BS flag on rjcaps comment!
cheers 737
 
Just a small example... My father is a PSA for Delta out of BDL, and last week they just set a pax record of 4,000 people that passed in and out of BDL in one day (pretty sure it was one day). Anyways... they haven't adjusted their schedule in months, same aircraft as always.. and last week... there wasn't anything important going on. Final Four is over, Spring Break is over, Easter week has passed... just regular customers.
 
The current rpm's indicate that there is just as much traffic flying the skies on DAL as there was in the busiest months in aviation history

I don't disagree with you on that point.

However, you would be incorrect to believe that ALPA's request will be summarily granted and a 1,000 furloughed pilots will be recalled.

Grinstein is replacing all top mgmt and will restructure the airline even if it means filing chapter 11.
 
Actually RJCap, Grinstein has nothing to do with "granting" the return of furloughee's. It was an arbitrator's ruling and the company has already agreed that the trigger has indeed been met as I posted previously. Now the only thing in question is how many a month for recall. Don't get me wrong. I have no illusion that we will be welcomed with open arms by management, however it might just get them back in the mindset of running an airline.

B-727 freight Dawg
used to be a Delta pilot
 
DAL 737FO,


Actually RJCap, Grinstein has nothing to do with "granting" the return of furloughee's.

Grinstein is going to restructure Delta one way or the other.


Your missing the big picture.

We will all find out in late June/July.
 
RJCap,

Well according to our VP of flight ops on his voicemail, the company AGREES with the association and will be meeting with them soon to discuss recall logistics.

I believe management made a wise decision here by not haggling over Feb 29th. It would only drive more of a wedge between the company & the pilots. They also probably already know how April RPMs were and they knew we'd still meet the recall requirements regardless of the 29th.

Anyway, as much as I want to be back tomorrow, I imagine the recall will span a good 18 months (just my opinion....backed up be absolutely ZERO facts). There are many options for the company if they want to offset the cost of this recall a bit. Anything is negotiable right...we had no-fly lines when we were overstaffed before, maybe they'll bring them back for unassigned people...who knows. I'd also bet a beer on a concession agreement being in place before the fall downturn in travel.

Looks like our no-furlough clause sort of works...not great, but better than not having one. I would have never guessed travelers would return so quickly though...2 1/2 years since 9/11 isn't really that long of a time. Too bad we still have no pricing power.

Its interesting to note that UAL still lost more than DAL this quarter even after massive employee concessions and all the benefits of operating under bankruptcy protection.

Also CAL's Gordon Bethune had a funny comment about competing with LCC's (leave it to Gordo for the quotes, right?). He said "all I have to do is fire everybody ever five years." I know this has nothing to do with this thread but I thought it was funny.
 

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