Delta Files to terminate Pensions

[ferlo]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/04/delta.pilots.ap/index.html


They're scrambbling as pension reform is on their doorstep. This might force them to actually pay their obligations...can't have that. Just remember how many times over the last few years how they said they'd do all they can to save the plan. Total Bullsh*t. All lies. We all need to remember examples like this when we go into negotiations. We need to be just as ruthless. It's the only thing they'll understand. Not unlike Terrorists.

 

[dane]

Yep,

It would appear that the most important thing when it comes to pension negotiations is a guarantee that the company continously meets its obligations with regards to payments. That might result in somewhat less attractive, but real, pension schemes. Something that I would REALLY appreciate the day I retire(latest at age 60 by the way).

I am fortuntate that in my neck of the woods(scandinavia) the company is not allowed to defer/delay payments into our pension plan. This is a huge advantage as our pension plan is never underfunded.

I feel for my colleagues in the US who all of a sudden, very close to retirement, see their pension plan and their plans for a nice, cozy retirement evaporate. I can't begin to imagine the feelings that would generate.

Regards,

dane

 

[ATLDRVR]

NEW YORK, Aug 4 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines (DALRQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research) on Friday said it asked the U.S. bankruptcy court to allow it to terminate the Delta Pilots Retirement Plan to help it emerge from Chapter 11 protection.
The Air Line Pilots Association, the union representing more than 6,800 Delta pilots, does not oppose the termination of the plan, the company said.

Is that true? I can't imagine that the pilots do not oppose this?

 

[aussiefly]

Bastards never had any intention of keeping the pension plan. So much for the `we will do our best to save it'.

Management is scum

 

[9rj9]

They sold out

The pilots promised not to oppose the termination of their retirement, in exchange they got a multimillion dollar note. Weak sisters gave it all away, so don't whine when Delta starts making money hand over fist next year, you sold out.

 

[StaySeated]

Sold out?

Actually, they negotiated a pretty good deal compared to what ual, usa, and nwa are getting stuck with. As part of the TA signed MONTHS ago, dalpa agreed not to contest the removal of the db plan in exchange for a 650-800 million dollar note. Considering the fact that the db plan was going to be removed regardless, that is a pretty good deal in my opinion.

I am repeatedly amazed at the lack of understanding demonstrated on this board. The "new" bk law is not very different than the current laws regarding pension funding, with one exception. Airlines were granted time extensions. It really is a moot point considering the fact that no one is going to have a db fund when this all shakes out.

So, no dal is not scrambling to dump the pension. They planned on doing it all along and negotiated a lump payout to current pilots earlier this year. And dalpa did not sell anything out, they were in bk and managed to scrape 3/4 of a billion dollars from the bottom of the barrel. Ask the ual guys and gals if they ended up with anything close to that when their db plan got flushed.

 

[800Dog]

Actually, they negotiated a pretty good deal compared to what ual, usa, and nwa are getting stuck with. As part of the TA signed MONTHS ago, dalpa agreed not to contest the removal of the db plan in exchange for a 650-800 million dollar note. Considering the fact that the db plan was going to be removed regardless, that is a pretty good deal in my opinion.

I am repeatedly amazed at the lack of understanding demonstrated on this board. The "new" bk law is not very different than the current laws regarding pension funding, with one exception. Airlines were granted time extensions. It really is a moot point considering the fact that no one is going to have a db fund when this all shakes out.

So, no dal is not scrambling to dump the pension. They planned on doing it all along and negotiated a lump payout to current pilots earlier this year. And dalpa did not sell anything out, they were in bk and managed to scrape 3/4 of a billion dollars from the bottom of the barrel. Ask the ual guys and gals if they ended up with anything close to that when their db plan got flushed.

And from that 3/4 of a billion we will see pennies on the dollar. Good deal if you are management. Those with the most invested in their career and the most responsibility lose their retirement while the non-contract/non-ALPA employees keep theirs. Why are we paying dues again?

 

[FlyingSig]

And from that 3/4 of a billion we will see pennies on the dollar. Good deal if you are management. Those with the most invested in their career and the most responsibility lose their retirement while the non-contract/non-ALPA employees keep theirs. Why are we paying dues again?

The note you refer to will be paid in whole. It's the $2.1 billion claim that will be paid at .10 - .25 cents on the dollar.

Not sure why this is news.... Delta has been saying for the past year they need to can the pilots plan but will try hard to keep the other employees plan if they can get the legislation. Looks like it worked out for them. Personally, I'd rather have the pilot plan go now and get some cash out of it then to have the same crap happen all over again during the next down turn when I'm ten years older and don't have time to recover..... but that's just me.

As for ALPA.. well, ask the General.... he voted for the thing.

 

[General Lee]

The note you refer to will be paid in whole. It's the $2.1 billion claim that will be paid at .10 - .25 cents on the dollar.

Not sure why this is news.... Delta has been saying for the past year they need to can the pilots plan but will try hard to keep the other employees plan if they can get the legislation. Looks like it worked out for them. Personally, I'd rather have the pilot plan go now and get some cash out of it then to have the same crap happen all over again during the next down turn when I'm ten years older and don't have time to recover..... but that's just me.

As for ALPA.. well, ask the General.... he voted for the thing.

Yeah, I voted for it, because it was the best alternative at the time. If you were old enough to take your pension in a lump sum, you would have been stupid not to do it, and 2300 left. The dead zoners were in a tough position, but are now at the top of the heap, and that may help them recover some of their lost pension in better pay due to a faster upgrade to larger equipment. That is the way it goes, and I would suggest investing wisely when we get our piece of the pension pie.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[capt. megadeth]

Well our lovely President Bush who obviously doesn't have to worry about his pension isn't helping by signing on it. He really makes me sick these days.

 

[Hdawg]

It is always someones fault...the President... he is the reason for airline management failures. A company can't make money must be the gov'ts fault!

 

[capt. megadeth]

It is always someones fault...the President... he is the reason for airline management failures. A company can't make money must be the gov'ts fault!

Uh, did I say anything about who's fault it was? I don't think so.

If the president has to approve this, he should also think about the people he is screwing by allowing a company to take something they promised to people away because of incompetent management. It's not about blaming someone, it's about holding them accountable for mismanagement and not just allowing them to drop promises and obligations to their employees. I wonder how he would feel if he was a retired pilot. Get my drift?

 

[Hdawg]

I understand your drift but how is the President supposed to hold management accountable? My dad lost his pension during the Clinton years is it the Democrats fault, should have Clinton held "them" accountable? Yes/no... who cares sometimes life sucks. Stop blaming someone else and live with it.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Ha do you think a politician would accept one of those jobs without a pension. Airline pilots accept jobs without pensions. So why should Delta or NWA pay a pension if SWA, JB don't?

 

[blzr]

Ha do you think a politician would accept one of those jobs without a pension. Airline pilots accept jobs without pensions. So why should Delta or NWA pay a pension if SWA, JB don't?

Because they had one and offered it to the pilots as a benefit. I remember back in the 90's when a hurricane, or series of hurricanes, hit northwest Florida and State Farm said "sorry, we don't have the funds to cover you". The courts basically told the insurance companies "tough Sh!t, Pay up". And they did.

At worst, Delta SHOULD be made to pay each employee back what was put in by the individual.

 

[warbirdfinder]

To Stay Seated:

Let me get this right, you think this is a good deal and ALPA represented pilots as best they could. SURE!!
What about the 5700 retired pilots who lost their pension!!!! After 35+ years of paying dues to ALPA, the union takes the stance, "... thanks for the money and since your not paying any more money to us, get lost." This in spite of the fact that our retirement was tied to the contact, which ALPA is suppose to defend.
The money they negotiated was for them, not the retired pilots. I and many others will recieve "0" from the PBGC.
Thirty seven years of promise of a pension by Delta were wiped away by the scum and morally corrupt managment at Delta.
The decieved Congress by stating the new pension act would save the pensions at Delta and then cancelled the pilot pensions after the bill was passed. What a crock!
Management is no better than a group of thieves, they are on the same level as the pirates at Enron and Worldcom.

 

[mooney flier]

Excellent post by warbirdfinder and I just want to echo what he said. To fly for Delta and pay dues to ALPA for 30+ years only to have the negotiated pension taken away in one's late sixties is a real kick in the ----. Next to go will be the medical/dental benefits ( or what's left of them). The so called "golden years" are rapidly turning to brown.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Stop blaming someone else and live with it.

Are you slow or something? I never blamed anyone and I don't have to live with it....I don't work at Delta. Obviously you don't either.

 

[tomgoodman]

The Payoff

DALPA's agreement not to oppose the pension dump was defended by the argument that the DB plan was doomed anyway, so why waste "negotiating capital" on an unwinnable fight? The flaw in this reasoning is exposed by management's willingness to PAY a bundle for the union's acquiescence.
Obviously, Delta was very worried that DALPA could foil their termination plan, or else they wouldn't have bought $650 million worth of insurance.

Retirees got a major clue that something like this was in the works when the MEC blocked them from logging on to the DALPA forum, even just to read it!

 

[warbirdfinder]

DALPA sold out the retired pilots for their own selfish benefits. In additional they allowed Delta to be able to tap into the Disability and Survivorship fund, which was a huge victory for DAL management.

DALPA was out maneuvered and outclassed during negotiations; their greed, lack of any moral fiber or backbone doomed them from the start.

 

[warbirdfinder]

Mooney Flier: Next to go will be the medical/dental benefits ( or what's left of them).

You hit the nail on the head. I retired at sixty with no medical benefits premium. Three months later DALPA renegotiated the medical benefit package (without any input from the retires of course) and now I pay $350.00/month.

I suspect that after the next round of negotiations, all medical benefits will dropped unless the retirees pay full medical premiums.

Remember this: No matter what your position in ALPA or your airline, when you retire, ALPA considers you a non-person, as if you never existed.
ALPA has changed drastically from the one I joined in 1966, unfortunately that change has been extremely negative.

 

[StaySeated]

To Stay Seated:

Let me get this right, you think this is a good deal and ALPA represented pilots as best they could.

Sir, I stated that it was a good deal, compared to what other union groups in a similiar position received. I never mentioned ALPA, as I have serious problems with ALPA's direction. (Side note, I do not believe the problem with the union lies in Herndon as much as it does with its membership.) I did state that DALPA negotiated something for current pilots and other pilot groups did not obtain a similiar pay out, I believe this to be an accurate observation. It is my opinion that the db plan was gone regardless of the payout and regardless of the new law. This doesn't make it suck any less for you or the rest of the retirees, but how could DAL maintain the plan when every carrier in bk is dumping them and every carrier out of bk is negotiating them away?

Obviously, you and thousands of others at several carriers have been totally screwed. My post was a response to what I believed was an inaccurate statement regarding something that was agreed to months ago.

Best of luck to you and Congrats on a safe career.

 

[slaquer5]

Ha do you think a politician would accept one of those jobs without a pension. Airline pilots accept jobs without pensions. So why should Delta or NWA pay a pension if SWA, JB don't?

YPF,I do not think you know what you are talking about but I am sure you have heard that before.