Delta Exiting Bankruptcy, Faces Changes

[igneousy2]

When looking at ratios, the actual numbers are less important than how the numbers compare to the numbers of other similar companies and how the numbers are changing on a period over period basis.

When looking at financial statements, in my opinion, the quickest way to determine the health of a company is to go to the Statement of Cash Flows and look at the "cash from operations" number...NOT the total change in cash at the bottom. From an accounting stand point, this is one of the more difficult numbers to skew and to me is where the rubber meets the road. Most importantly, make sure this number is positive and preferably on an increasing trend. If this number is decreasing or already negative things are not well at your company.

Later

 

[Schiphol]

When looking at ratios, the actual numbers are less important than how the numbers compare to the numbers of other similar companies and how the numbers are changing on a period over period basis.

When looking at financial statements, in my opinion, the quickest way to determine the health of a company is to go to the Statement of Cash Flows and look at the "cash from operations" number...NOT the total change in cash at the bottom. From an accounting stand point, this is one of the more difficult numbers to skew and to me is where the rubber meets the road. Most importantly, make sure this number is positive and preferably on an increasing trend. If this number is decreasing or already negative things are not well at your company.

Later

Concur, 100%. However, cash from operations are only really good if they are sustainable, see little long term competition (in this market) and aren't in the face of some heinous long term leveraged position at untenable rates.

 

[Schiphol]

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do have an MBA, so I'll throw in my .02. Debt to Equity (D/E) is the ratio used to measure long term debt. When put into ratio form it allows for a common sized comparison of debt across differen sized companies.

A couple other handy ratios are:
Current Ratio = Current Assets / Current Liabilities
Quick Ratio = Quick Assets / Current Liabilities

The current ratio is a measure of a company's ability to meet short term (12 mos.) expenses. The Quick Ratio is a acid test version that doesn't include inventory in the Current Assets calculation. Generally a 2:1 current ratio and a 1:1 quick ratio are reaonable. I'm not sure about airline industry specifics.

When looking at the Debt to Equity (D/E) ratios a bigger factor is the trend in the ratio over time vs. a balance sheet snapshot. If a company can reduce the long term D/E ratio while maintaining cash the balance sheet is improving.

These links will give you a snapshot of company financials

UAUA http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=UAUA&annual
CAL http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=cal
NWA http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=NWACQ.PK&annual
SWA http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=luv
DAL - Not available, but should be once they start trading again.

What he said. I'm just a marketing/strategy dude...and like I said, I sucked at FinAcct.

Thanks for the clarification Gunfighter....and thanks for bringing up the bad memories.

Thats why I ditched the business world and am banging on doors hoping someone lets me fly their big airplanes.

 

[GCAP]

We are getting equity in the company later this week in the form of a check (most Captains will get a check for $120,000 plus two years (06 and 07) of their 401K filled to the max ($44,000 each year), and FOs will get around $80,000 in cash plus those two years of 401K fill ups ($88,000 total)), then we also get to carve up a $650 million note for the actual pension drop, which may fill up our 2008 401K requirement---which would be good so we could hide some money from the tax man, and the rest in cash again). Other than that, we have a 9% DC fund (9% of our monthly gross is matched by the company each month and put into this plan in our names) plus an additional 2% match on the 401K. United has a 16% contribution on their DC plan, so that is what we will be asking for next. That is all in our own names too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

It is whores like you that can't wiat to carve up what was to be the pension of many hard working Delts pilots of the past. " I'll get " blank blank " from the note and "blank blank" from the claim. You and all like you are what is wrong with aviation. WHORES!!!!!

 

[General Lee]

It is whores like you that can't wiat to carve up what was to be the pension of many hard working Delts pilots of the past. " I'll get " blank blank " from the note and "blank blank" from the claim. You and all like you are what is wrong with aviation. WHORES!!!!!

Say what? They are the guys that couldn't care less about 100s of furloughs, as long as they got theirs. (let me guess, your dad was a DL pilot?? Right?--I hope he invested well) A pension has always been a promise, and if they stayed with their original wife and didn't buy a large boat, they should be doing fine now on the golf course.

And, ALPA is the one determining the distribution of the claim, not the average line pilot. It is done with many equations that would be too hard to describe to you right now. Fair is fair! Bye now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AA717driver]

It is whores like you that can't wiat to carve up what was to be the pension of many hard working Delts pilots of the past. " I'll get " blank blank " from the note and "blank blank" from the claim. You and all like you are what is wrong with aviation. WHORES!!!!!

Shhhh! None of the "heroes" at Delta want to acknowlege what they did to the PAA pilots and what they would be willing to do to the JB people.

They make APA look downright magnanimous... TC

P.S.--Those who lost their pensions in the "glorious" Ch. 11 should have forseeen what was coming 20 years down the road and prepared for it.

 

[General Lee]

First of all, the retired pilots got an $880 million claim in BK, which will be given shortly to them. Second, ever hear of the dirty 30 at Pan Am? The guys that bid down to 727 Captain from 747 Captain to bump out other guys who would have gone to Delta? Sounds like they all were sooooo ethical.... And as far as what COULD happen with the JB guys if we EVER did aquire them? I don't know, what is in their contract?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[motch]

maybe off topic... but,

Congrats DAL on exiting BK. All The Best!

Always
Motch

 

[dtfl]

It is whores like you that can't wiat to carve up what was to be the pension of many hard working Delts pilots of the past. " I'll get " blank blank " from the note and "blank blank" from the claim. You and all like you are what is wrong with aviation. WHORES!!!!!

If this isn't just flame...then let me respond...

As a guy whom was furloughed for 5+ years....you can k&ss my ass.
GREENSLIPPER!

 

[acarpe3448]

It is whores like you that can't wiat to carve up what was to be the pension of many hard working Delts pilots of the past. " I'll get " blank blank " from the note and "blank blank" from the claim. You and all like you are what is wrong with aviation. WHORES!!!!!

F### YOU looser!

 

[acarpe3448]

Shhhh! None of the "heroes" at Delta want to acknowlege what they did to the PAA pilots and what they would be willing to do to the JB people.

They make APA look downright magnanimous... TC

P.S.--Those who lost their pensions in the "glorious" Ch. 11 should have forseeen what was coming 20 years down the road and prepared for it.

F### YOU looser! You know you are showing that you are jealous don't you?

 

[acarpe3448]

If this isn't just flame...then let me respond...

As a guy whom was furloughed for 5+ years....you can k&ss my ass.
GREENSLIPPER!

As a guy furloughed 2 1/2 years, I'll second that brother!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

It is whores like you that can't wiat to carve up what was to be the pension of many hard working Delts pilots of the past. " I'll get " blank blank " from the note and "blank blank" from the claim. You and all like you are what is wrong with aviation. WHORES!!!!!

Name call all you want.

But the fact is, considering the financial state of Delta found itself in, you got more than you deserved for longer than you deserved. Your failure to analyze what happened to retirees at other companies and appreciate how you got more is not the fault of the current Delta pilots.

Your assumption that current Delta pilots should work at extra low wages to prop up your inflated retirement check is not only arrogant, it would go against any company's BK plan. Nothing but wishful thinking on your part.

When you "negotiated" the awesome contract and pension what did you expect? Did you expect every Delta pilot to retire with a million dollar bonus and 150K a year forever?

If I'm right in assuming you retired before the awesome contract was signed, you need to blame the senior dudes that worked on that unethically generous contract. Not the guys who were FO's and very junior at the time (The guys you now call whores). Your enemy retired early shortly after 9/11 and is now working for Emirates, NetJets or Airtran for "something to do in retirement"

 

[Dizel8]

A captain from American (who was spoken to today in MCO) is spreading the rumor that American is interested in putting in an offer for Southwest. Stating that is cheaper to buy them for the 737 in place of the MD-8 series and can all the people. I am not sure if this idea has been said here before but this guy sounded like he actually believed it.

 

[Dizel8]

And as far as what COULD happen with the JB guys if we EVER did aquire them? I don't know, what is in their contract?

1. You never will!
2.You'd be jerking gear for me!

 

[General Lee]

1. You never will!
2.You'd be jerking gear for me!

Wanna bet? If it happens, I will bid NYC and make sure you do every walk around TWICE.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Noserider76]

A captain from American (who was spoken to today in MCO) is spreading the rumor that American is interested in putting in an offer for Southwest. Stating that is cheaper to buy them for the 737 in place of the MD-8 series and can all the people. I am not sure if this idea has been said here before but this guy sounded like he actually believed it.

Was he drunk at the time? SWA's market cap now is much higher than American's and would only go higher with the rumor of a leveraged buyout.

 

[737 Pylt]

Name call all you want.

But the fact is, considering the financial state of Delta found itself in, you got more than you deserved for longer than you deserved. Your failure to analyze what happened to retirees at other companies and appreciate how you got more is not the fault of the current Delta pilots.

Your assumption that current Delta pilots should work at extra low wages to prop up your inflated retirement check is not only arrogant, it would go against any company's BK plan. Nothing but wishful thinking on your part.

When you "negotiated" the awesome contract and pension what did you expect? Did you expect every Delta pilot to retire with a million dollar bonus and 150K a year forever?

If I'm right in assuming you retired before the awesome contract was signed, you need to blame the senior dudes that worked on that unethically generous contract. Not the guys who were FO's and very junior at the time (The guys you now call whores). Your enemy retired early shortly after 9/11 and is now working for Emirates, NetJets or Airtran for "something to do in retirement"

FBJ:
Nicely put!:beer:

737

 

[WSurf]

and make sure you do every walk around TWICE.


Bye Bye--General Lee

People still do them?

 

[WSurf]

If I'm right in assuming you retired before the awesome contract was signed, you need to blame the senior dudes that worked on that unethically generous contract.

Never thought I would read something like that!

 

[AA717driver]

F### YOU looser! You know you are showing that you are jealous don't you?

I'd respond to your post point by point--if it had a point.

I guess being furloughed for a couple of years gives you more rights than someone who helped build an airline and flew the line for 30 years...

So now you're trashing the contracts that took decades to achieve (and was subsequently dismantled by management) and instead worshiping the imposed, cut-rate contract you have now?

This is the worst case of "beaten spouse syndrome" I've ever seen. At least the NWA and UAL guys are smart enough to know they got handed a piece of $h!t contract. TC

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Originally Posted by FlyBoeingJets
If I'm right in assuming you retired before the awesome contract was signed, you need to blame the senior dudes that worked on that unethically generous contract.

Never thought I would read something like that!

Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch on this one.....


Signing on the dotted line on that contract sealed Delta's fate. BK was inevitable. Some knew it, many didn't. It was kinda like a trainwreck. You could see it coming but you couldn't do anything about it.

 

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by FlyBoeingJets
If I'm right in assuming you retired before the awesome contract was signed, you need to blame the senior dudes that worked on that unethically generous contract.




Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch on this one.....


Signing on the dotted line on that contract sealed Delta's fate. BK was inevitable. Some knew it, many didn't. It was kinda like a trainwreck. You could see it coming but you couldn't do anything about it.

That is a ridiculous statement. You obviously know nothing about what really happened. Did you know that Leo and others used company money to buy back stock a couple weeks before 9-11 to inflate their own options, and then 9-11 happened? We lost billions of dollars in a flash. That is the real reason we started a downward spiral, not pilot salaries. Even the spicy BK judge put our CFO on the spot when he was on the stand, accusing Leo and the others of the same thing---"I know what you guys were doing...." All of those people that were incharge at the time (Leo, Fred Greed, Michele Burns, etc) are all gone now. If you don't know what happened, try NOT to blame the pilots. Signing the dotted line made us a fixed cost---they knew exactly what we were going to cost. When you have a fixed cost, you need to price everything else accordingly. And, creating a SERP--Senior Executive Retirement Program and stashing millions off shore doesn't help, either.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do have an MBA, so I'll throw in my .02. Debt to Equity (D/E) is the ratio used to measure long term debt. When put into ratio form it allows for a common sized comparison of debt across differen sized companies.

A couple other handy ratios are:
Current Ratio = Current Assets / Current Liabilities
Quick Ratio = Quick Assets / Current Liabilities

The current ratio is a measure of a company's ability to meet short term (12 mos.) expenses. The Quick Ratio is a acid test version that doesn't include inventory in the Current Assets calculation. Generally a 2:1 current ratio and a 1:1 quick ratio are reaonable. I'm not sure about airline industry specifics.

When looking at the Debt to Equity (D/E) ratios a bigger factor is the trend in the ratio over time vs. a balance sheet snapshot. If a company can reduce the long term D/E ratio while maintaining cash the balance sheet is improving.

These links will give you a snapshot of company financials

UAUA http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=UAUA&annual
CAL http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=cal
NWA http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=NWACQ.PK&annual
SWA http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=luv
DAL - Not available, but should be once they start trading again.

Thanks, Gunfighter.

Should we be looking at “Long Term Debt” on the balance sheet or “Total liabilities?”

If it’s just “Long Term Debt”/”Total Stockholder Equity” I see …

UAUA = 4.0
CAL = 8.2
LUV = 0.23
AMR = so bad the equity is negative number.

I guess CAL does have a lot of long-term debt, relatively speaking

 

[ultrarunner]

A captain from Delta (who was spoken to today in MCO) is spreading the rumor that they (Delta) is interested in putting in an offer for Jetblue. Stating that is cheaper to buy them for the gates at JFK and move the 320 in place of the MD-8 series and can all the people. I am not sure if this idea has been said here before but this guy sounded like he actually believed it. Any thoughts?

JetBlue only has a Market Cap of 1.7B, so it would be a pretty cheap buy. All the employees are non-union, so you dodge that fly-in-the-ointment. Right now they're trading at 10 bucks or so. Another bad quarter or two with the stock sliding to 5 bucks, they could be ripe.

There are way too many seats flying around the country. Gotta get rid of a ton of them and get fares back to profitable levels.

It'll be fun to watch, that's for sure.

 

[dtfl]

I'd respond to your post point by point--if it had a point.

I guess being furloughed for a couple of years gives you more rights than someone who helped build an airline and flew the line for 30 years...

So now you're trashing the contracts that took decades to achieve (and was subsequently dismantled by management) and instead worshiping the imposed, cut-rate contract you have now?

This is the worst case of "beaten spouse syndrome" I've ever seen. At least the NWA and UAL guys are smart enough to know they got handed a piece of $h!t contract. TC

Get a clue. We furloughees didn't trash a damn thing. WE COULDNT VOTE on the new contract!!! I hate that the retirees lost what they did, but when many of them walked away with hundreds of thousands in lump sums and we who are working there will NEVER EVER reach that point........I don't want to hear any complaining. They worked for their retirement, I am working for mine, but don't blame me for what happened to the company.

Again, I hate it for guys as many of my friends fathers are losing retirement..but after bitching about it they talk about the 3 condos they just bought on the FL panhandle. I don't shed tears at that point.

Go back under the rock

 

[AA717driver]

dtfl--I was responding to a series of profanity-laced posts (not that there's anything wrong with that... ) by acarpe.

He was blaming Delta's problems on the great contract of 2000-something. Like they should have bargained for less.

The Delta pilots were going to get a contract handed to them in bankruptcy. They negotiated one that was better than what they would have gotten in 1113-land.

I just don't see any reason for celebration over that contract like we see from GL. Talk about taking lemons and making lemonade...TC