Delta/DALPA-Let's lay it all out re: SCOPE

[waveflyer]

The simple concise question is this:

"Why not create 700+ new mainline jobs with the new -900's mgmt would like to order?"

Now let's get real-

Why does delta want these outsourced, even if it means inflexible limits-

Why would DALPA sign off on it? Why do some members WANT these a/c outsourced?

I think it's time for everybody to get clear what the real motivations are-

 

[Full of LUV]

The simple concise question is this:

"Why not create 700+ new mainline jobs with the new -900's mgmt would like to order?"

Now let's get real-

Why does delta want these outsourced, even if it means inflexible limits-

Why would DALPA sign off on it? Why do some members WANT these a/c outsourced?

I think it's time for everybody to get clear what the real motivations are-

Aren't you SWA?

Why does Waveflyer care about DAL scope?

In case you were actually unknowing and not just flaming..... DAL wants this flying outsourced because when you take the whole operation from agents, bag throwers, pilots, FA's etc, contractors are cheaper. They'd contract out 777 flying if they thought they could get away with it.

 

[SSDD]

If you're not just flaming, and you really believe the stuff you post, I'd say you have a psychological problem. You live in a fantasy world, to say the least!

 

[General Lee]

Aren't you SWA?

Why does Waveflyer care about DAL scope?

In case you were actually unknowing and not just flaming..... DAL wants this flying outsourced because when you take the whole operation from agents, bag throwers, pilots, FA's etc, contractors are cheaper. They'd contract out 777 flying if they thought they could get away with it.

You are right in the fact that it's not just about the pilots. It would have to be about the whole operation. Mainline wages are usually higher than connection carriers, and that makes the whole idea impractical. Would it be great to do? Sure. Do you have an extra few billion to do it? Probably not. Why doesn't SWA have a regional at SWA wages to fly to even smaller cities than LBB and MAF? Sure, they can do it. Oh wait, they are paying the Airtran guys less (even though they fly some of the same planes (737s) and planes in equal size to some of their 737-500s (717s).

Let's hope SWA creates their own CRJ operation and pays everyone SWA wages. That would be........FAN.....TASTIC.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

The truth is there, for those willing to read it. Others will cover their ears and repeat the same misinformation.

The is a huge improvement in scope.


From the LEC66 Newsletter:
PQC: We allowed the company more 76-seaters.

R: This is simply false. And it is a good example of why we would like the chance to explain some of the intricacies of this TA, especially the scope clause. Under our current contract, if management simply takes delivery of the planes they have on order (not even counting the 717s), they would then be free to trade the 70-seat jets for up to 255 76-seat jets. The TA only allows them 223. This is a net reduction of 32 permitted 76-seat planes. (So as not to seem disingenuous, under the TA they would be permitted to keep the 70-seaters.)

PQC: What would prevent management from simply parking mainline airplanes as soon as they get more 76-seaters?

R: Today, under our current contract, absolutely nothing. Delta could take delivery of 102 more 76-seat jets bringing them to a total of 255 76-seat jets, and then park any and as many mainline jets as they want. The MD-90s and 737s we have coming next year are more than enough to trigger the 3:1 ratio in our current contract to allow Delta to acquire more 76-seat jets. Under the TA, the ratio of mainline domestic block hours to DCI block hours have to grow with every 717 we get. We will not and cannot promise that Delta mainline will grow. But now, for the first time, we have language that will prevent Delta from repeating what has happened so often in the past. There will be no more shifting of flying and jobs from mainline to DCI. There will be no more watching DCI grow while we shrink.

PQC: You caved on scope. You sold scope for a few dollars.

R: False!!! This scope section is a huge win. It now represents by far the best job protection among the legacy carriers (as Southwest’s management has never tried to fly a RJ, we hesitate to offer too much credit to them for their admittedly good scope clause). And it is a vast improvement over our current scope. “Not one more seat, not one more jet, not one more pound!” We heard that mantra loud and clear and indeed echoed it often. This TA represents a huge decrease in seats, jets, and pounds for DCI, and shifts that flying (jobs) to mainline. It prevents management from taking one more 76-seat jet until 717s arrive and 50-seaters are parked. It sets a hard cap on RJs at 25 percent fewer airplanes than they currently operate. That hard cap is set in stone. If management wants to grow Delta Air Lines, they now must do it with Delta mainline airplanes. And Delta mainline pilots. And with the growing ratio of mainline block hours to DCI block hours, if management ever wants to shrink Delta, they must also shrink DCI. The shifting of our flying to RJs is finally over, if this TA is ratified.

Perhaps an even bigger threat is with bigger airplanes. This TA secures industry-leading protections against joint ventures, tightens codeshare restrictions, and significantly improves the Alaska codeshare agreement.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Hey Wavey, why don't your captains make $1000/hr?

 

[waveflyer]

Bc I believe outsourcing hurts the entire industry.

Yeah, it is a psychological problem-But it's grounded in reality. It's not about me. I have a lot of friends still hurting on furlough due in large part to our old jobs being outsourced.

Gate agents, mechanics, flight attendants, all have their own scope sections- we only control pilots.

Why can't you answer the question why the new -900's can't create new mainline pilot jobs? Pretty generous tI give that away for as little as you're getting general.

As for SWA and Swapa- it's pretty weak that you have to deflect everything to that. I have 17 years in the airlines- only 5 at Swa-
As for air tran- they'll be one list and 1 pay in less than 3 years- when will DCI be on the the DALPA list?

 

[waveflyer]

Hey goggles-
What is the likelihood that delta will trade in all 70's for 76 seat -900's?
All that cost for 6 more seats- and IMO 255 76 seaters is better than 325 -700's&-900's.
They aren't going to keep the 50's no matter what you do-

You're giving away your leverage for way too little.

 

[jetflier]

you are right in the fact that it's not just about the pilots. It would have to be about the whole operation. Mainline wages are usually higher than connection carriers, and that makes the whole idea impractical. Would it be great to do? Sure. Do you have an extra few billion to do it? Probably not. Why doesn't swa have a regional at swa wages to fly to even smaller cities than lbb and maf? Sure, they can do it. Oh wait, they are paying the airtran guys less (even though they fly some of the same planes (737s) and planes in equal size to some of their 737-500s (717s).

Let's hope swa creates their own crj operation and pays everyone swa wages. That would be........fan.....tastic.


Bye bye---general lee

w t f !!

 

[jetflier]

The truth is there, for those willing to read it. Others will cover their ears and repeat the same misinformation.

The is a huge improvement in scope.


From the LEC66 Newsletter:
PQC: We allowed the company more 76-seaters.

R: This is simply false. And it is a good example of why we would like the chance to explain some of the intricacies of this TA, especially the scope clause. Under our current contract, if management simply takes delivery of the planes they have on order (not even counting the 717s), they would then be free to trade the 70-seat jets for up to 255 76-seat jets. The TA only allows them 223. This is a net reduction of 32 permitted 76-seat planes. (So as not to seem disingenuous, under the TA they would be permitted to keep the 70-seaters.)

PQC: What would prevent management from simply parking mainline airplanes as soon as they get more 76-seaters?

R: Today, under our current contract, absolutely nothing. Delta could take delivery of 102 more 76-seat jets bringing them to a total of 255 76-seat jets, and then park any and as many mainline jets as they want. The MD-90s and 737s we have coming next year are more than enough to trigger the 3:1 ratio in our current contract to allow Delta to acquire more 76-seat jets. Under the TA, the ratio of mainline domestic block hours to DCI block hours have to grow with every 717 we get. We will not and cannot promise that Delta mainline will grow. But now, for the first time, we have language that will prevent Delta from repeating what has happened so often in the past. There will be no more shifting of flying and jobs from mainline to DCI. There will be no more watching DCI grow while we shrink.

PQC: You caved on scope. You sold scope for a few dollars.

R: False!!! This scope section is a huge win. It now represents by far the best job protection among the legacy carriers (as Southwest’s management has never tried to fly a RJ, we hesitate to offer too much credit to them for their admittedly good scope clause). And it is a vast improvement over our current scope. “Not one more seat, not one more jet, not one more pound!” We heard that mantra loud and clear and indeed echoed it often. This TA represents a huge decrease in seats, jets, and pounds for DCI, and shifts that flying (jobs) to mainline. It prevents management from taking one more 76-seat jet until 717s arrive and 50-seaters are parked. It sets a hard cap on RJs at 25 percent fewer airplanes than they currently operate. That hard cap is set in stone. If management wants to grow Delta Air Lines, they now must do it with Delta mainline airplanes. And Delta mainline pilots. And with the growing ratio of mainline block hours to DCI block hours, if management ever wants to shrink Delta, they must also shrink DCI. The shifting of our flying to RJs is finally over, if this TA is ratified.

Perhaps an even bigger threat is with bigger airplanes. This TA secures industry-leading protections against joint ventures, tightens codeshare restrictions, and significantly improves the Alaska codeshare agreement.

(covering ears and screaming) LA LA LA LA LA La la la la la la l..........ect...