Delta cost per employee

[Guitar Guy]

Have these gains in cost per employee been reflected in the bottom line, i.e. a profit? Also, how likely is a bankruptcy filing and another round of concessions at Delta in light of the cost per employee reduction?

I do wish all Delta employees well but it looks like it's still a tough road ahead.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

You know now that we are owned by Skywest I no longer have to worry about this crap. Bankruptcy no longer effects us ASA pilots. We have guarnteed flying and boy that feels nice.

According to SEC filings SkyWest management feels a bit differently. They issued warnings on the potential effects of a DAL bankruptcy. You are somewhat shielded though because ASA pilots could be used to feed airlines other than DAL. Plus you'll end up with better management thanks to your new corporate parent.

 

[General Lee]

Flyboeingjets,


Thanks for bringing up the same article that was in another thread. Your point? My point with the quarterly report stats was to show that our labor costs have gone down this year compared to last year. I was showing that now managmenet has to come up with a viable plan. Your analysts in your article really KNOW NOTHING of what actually is going on in the boardroom. I think there is a good chance we go to court, but we all do not know the outcome. As far as number of pilots per airplane, that has gone down tremendously---since 2200 Captains have retired in one year--and we really haven't parked very many planes as of late--a few 762s, maybe some 732s and 5 733s. Our last major parking was the 14 MD11s and that was just before the US led Iraq invasion. Delta also has side businesses with many employees--like Delta technology and that may have included ASA and Comair since we just sold ASA and that was the June 2005 quarterly report. So, you can subtract a few more thousand employees from ASA.


Ottahere,

Well, your new company has an agreement with us for another 15 years, and assuming we stay as one company, your futures are tied with us and another bankrupt company called United, in protection for three years with no plan yet. And, Delta still retains the leases on 40 of your ASA RJs, and could dump them in a Chap 11 situation. That may affect you, and you really may be outtahere.


Guitarguy,

Well, it is a start. But, when you have a lot of debt, a pension plan that is underfunded, and fuel at historically high levels, it is hard to see any progress. But, a trip to court or some pension legislation can help all but the fuel, and additional pay cuts (which are likely) can help with the fuel, unfortunately. How many airlines will be profitable during the slower third quarter with $66 a barrel oil? Not many. (I better say Southwest for Canyon Blue or he will say something.....)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

You know now that we are owned by Skywest I no longer have to worry about this crap. Bankruptcy no longer effects us ASA pilots.

Yeah, just like UAL's BK didn't effect the ACA pilots.

A DAL BK will have a negative effect on all pilots. The DAL pilots directly, all pilots working for small jet lift vendors, like Chq, Mesa, Skywest, CMR and ASA, as Connection contracts are rewritten and finally all other pilots who will be competing against a mega carrier like DAL, that has shed debt, reduced lease obligations and slashed pay and benefits of its employees while it operates under BK protection.

All of us have been adversely effected by the UAL and U BK, and it won't get any better with a DAL and/or possibly a NWA, CAL and AMR BK.

 

[General Lee]

Yes, but ottahere thinks he's in the clear.....



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

You know now that we are owned by Skywest I no longer have to worry about this crap. Bankruptcy no longer effects us ASA pilots. We have guarnteed flying and boy that feels nice.

You're kidding right? If you think a Delta BK won't affect the pilots of Skywest and ASA, you are fooling yourself.

 

[outtahere]

On the contrary, and trust me, I do not want this but I believe Delta will be forced to release scope as they flie chapter 11 thus stregthening ASA's position. Hey I am hoping to get out of here someday, but until then I have to feed my growing family. Also if I didn't think positively I would likely go into a deep depression and as my ego shrank, my flight info posts would swell to over 5000.

 

[atrdriver]

On the contrary, and trust me, I do not want this but I believe Delta will be forced to release scope as they flie chapter 11 thus stregthening ASA's position. Hey I am hoping to get out of here someday, but until then I have to feed my growing family. Also if I didn't think positively I would likely go into a deep depression and as my ego shrank, my flight info posts would swell to over 5000.

If you think that we have ANYTHING guaranteed after being bought by SKW you are really fooling yourself. It's entirely possible that when they are done with us that none of us will have jobs.

 

[michael707767]

On the contrary, and trust me, I do not want this but I believe Delta will be forced to release scope as they flie chapter 11 thus stregthening ASA's position. .

speaking only for myself, though I know everyone I talk to agrees, I would let Delta go ch7 before I voted to give another inch on scope. Without scope, the rest of the contract is worthless.

 

[MedFlyer]

speaking only for myself, though I know everyone I talk to agrees, I would let Delta go ch7 before I voted to give another inch on scope. Without scope, the rest of the contract is worthless.

It's easy for people to talk tough now, but when it comes down to the actual vote I think the outcome will be different. We heard lots of tough talk last year, but the contract passed easily.

Even with additional paycuts, most DL pilots will still be making six figures and have decent benefits. I doubt most pilots would throw all that away over scope...especially if DL adds a few deal sweeteners in there (some shiny new 787's maybe).

If you force DL to liquidate, you won't have many better options. I guess you could go fly E190's at Jetblue for $40 an hour...of course they don't have scope either.

 

[wmuflyguy]

speaking only for myself, though I know everyone I talk to agrees, I would let Delta go ch7 before I voted to give another inch on scope. Without scope, the rest of the contract is worthless.

Unfortunately, the pilot group may not have a choice in ch.11, If there is a impasse, i think the compnay can force work rules onto the employees or the judge can just pilfer and change the CBA . I hope it will not come to that, stupid to punish the pilots cause of mismanagement.

 

[410dude]

Unfortunately, the pilot group may not have a choice in ch.11, If there is a impasse, i think the compnay can force work rules onto the employees or the judge can just pilfer and change the CBA . I hope it will not come to that, stupid to punish the pilots cause of mismanagement.

For those of you new to this board, WMUflyguy is the real "TheGuat".
Good to see you again on the board TheGuat. Are you still interning at Comair? Was that Helo pilot in Blackhawk down pissed that you put his picture on your website? Speaking of your website, are you ever going to put it back online? I'm sure the others on this board would love to see it. You have some real competition now with "SmilingPaul" for the biggest tool ever on this board.

 

[AAflyer]

410Dude,

I would certainly put you in the running as well.

AA

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

From the Delta quarterly report:

Comparing the first quarter (March) 2004 to the latest second quarter (June) 2005, the number of DAL employees has fallen by 6.6% from 69,900 to 64,165. Over the same period, gross revenue increased 18.7% from $3.529 billion to $4.190 billion; revenue per employee increased 27% from $50,486 to $64,165; total labor costs decreased 19.3% from $1.609 billion to $1.298 billion; and labor cost per employee decreased 13.7% from $23,018 to $ 19,877.

DAL labor cost per employee is now 7% below that of Southwest. In March 2004, DAL labor cost per employee was 23% above Southwest.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I'm trying to make sense out of all these numbers, General. It's great that revenue is up. But costs per employee don't mean much to me unless the number of employees per aircraft or revenue per employee looks competitive.

I am impressed by some other info from the DAL quarterly report. I like that gross revenue went up $600 million while operating expenses were only up $100 million. Especially since fuel expense shot up $385 million.

Operating Expenses ​

Operating expenses were $4.3 billion for the June 2005 quarter compared to $4.2 billion for the June 2004 quarter. As discussed below, the increase in operating expenses was primarily due to significantly higher fuel prices in 2005 than in 2004. Operating capacity increased 5% to 40.5 billion Available Seat Miles (“ASMs”) primarily due to operational efficiencies from the redesign of our Atlanta hub from a banked to a continuous hub, which allowed us to increase system-wide capacity with no additional Mainline aircraft. Operating cost per available seat mile (“CASM”) decreased 2% to 10.66¢.

Salaries and related costs decreased 18%, or $286 million, to $1.3 billion in the June 2005 quarter. This reflects a 17% decrease from salary rate reductions for our pilot and non-pilot employees and a 7% decline due to lower Mainline headcount. These decreases under our transformation plan were partially offset primarily by a 4% increase related to higher capacity and a 1% rise due to higher seniority-based pay increases.

Aircraft fuel expense increased 58%, or $385 million, to $1.1 billion, with approximately $365 million of the increase resulting from higher fuel prices, which remain at historically high levels. The average fuel price per gallon increased 53% to $1.60 and total gallons consumed increased 3%. Fare increases implemented during the June 2005 quarter in response to rising aircraft fuel prices offset only a small portion of those cost increases. During the June 2005 quarter, we had no significant hedges or contractual arrangements to reduce our fuel costs below market levels, and we have no such arrangements​

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I'm also impressed that Delta's costs per employee are dropping as revenue per employee rises.

 

[FDJ2]

Now riddle me this, how many employees or pilots per aircraft????

64,000 employees/530 aircraft=120.75employees/aircraft

6700 pilots/530 aircraft=12.64pilots/aircraft

give or take a few.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I've got 00'-03' numbers on % pilot cost of total operating revenue and pilots per aircraft.

Working toward getting under 12.5 pilots per aircraft is a good thing. Delta has been at or above 13 since 2001. You were at 15 in 2000. SWA is at or below 10.5. CAL at 11. Airtran and NWA under 12. Alaska and AWA almost 12.5.

AA, UAL, and JetBlue about 14. Coincidentally, it showed ATA over 15 per aircraft in '01 and '03.

The charts I have from 2003 show Delta pilot cost as a % of total operating revenue the best in the industry. It shows Delta even with Alaska about 6.3%. NWA about 7.3. But it shows JetBlue at 12% (trending lower). Airtran and AWA at 9.5. UAL, CAL and SWA at about 8.5%. AA at 8.0. I wonder if this chart is what it is cracked up to be.