Delta Connection Academy

[Tailplane]

Does anyone have any words about the former Comair Academy? They have recently changed thier name and I was wondering how they do. I visited thier campus and was really impressed. Are there any former students on this forum that could help me out in determining if this is a school I should look into.

 

[DTWFO]

Former Student

I attended the former Comair Aviation Academy prior to the name change and I can vouch for their training. I will not lie to you and say that the training is cheap in any way. It is expensive, but I am of the mind that you get what you pay for in most cases regarding flight training. I do not know if they have changed their prices since I was there, but I can tell you that the level of training you will receive is second to none. There are only a couple other schools where you will receive the same level of training....those being Flight Safety or Embry Riddle (in my opinion). After leaving Comair you will have what you need to pursue an airline career. They do not give you an easy time, it is hard work and you get out of it what you put into it, but if you apply yourself, like in any other field they will help you out in any way they can and in most cases will go the extra mile to help you get hired. When you finish you will be far ahead of many other applicants out there. Good luck to you and if you want more specific information PM me and I would be more than happy to provide any help that I can!

 

[ShinerBocknabtl]

DTWFO says:

"There are only a couple other schools where you will receive the same level of training....those being Flight Safety or Embry Riddle (in my opinion)."


I attended Comair Academy and instructed at Riddle. Comair's prices weren't that bad at the time but I do know they were going up. At Comair/Delta you will fly worn out planes with stuff that don't work, hopefully not get the runaround from accounting when you find mistakes on your invoices, or deal with check pilots that have a big head. What you WILL get is top notch professionalism from your instructor, a structured beyond all recognition flight training environment, and you'll get on the schedule often.

Just to inform DTWFO, at Riddle you get pretty new planes, none older than 4 years, a pretty campus, a starving flight instructor, and overpaid management 1/2 of which don't belong as they were imported through the "good ol' boy" system rather than credentials/experience. Riddle is union therefore when the instructors and management don't always see eye to eye it takes a whole heap of time to iron things out. And management usually wins.

In the two years I was at Riddle I never once was thanked for the MASSIVE amounts of time I put in with no pay, saving the students and university money daily at my own sacrifice, and was not eligible for multi upgrade as their "formula" to calculate upgrade points was changed 7 times in the process of one upgrade class to accept those who were "good ol' boys".

I understand that anyone who reads this post will think of me as a bitter motheryouknowwhat but no place is perfect and I would like to share my exact experiences with others so that they might weigh the pro's and con's to figger out what's best for themselves.

side note, Riddle's maintenance dept. is out of this world, I would fly anything those guys work on and put my family in back without a second thought.

 

[de Pez]

I went there. If they can put you in the right seat of a turbine aircraft 2 years earlier than an traditional FBO, what is the value there?... About half a million dollars, because that provides the possibility of being hired two years ealier at a major airline. (Somewhat convuluted math, but that's my personal reality)

HOWEVER, it is a hard place. Assume that 90% of those around you will be gone by the time you're an instructor. Don't plan on "family time" or flexibility on their part. You must give it 100% if you elect this route.

 

[DTWFO]

"at Riddle you get pretty new planes, none older than 4 years, a pretty campus, a starving flight instructor, and overpaid management 1/2 of which don't belong as they were imported through the "good ol' boy" system rather than credentials/experience."

I don't think you sound bitter at all. I totally agree with you! And you are right Riddle's planes are much much nicer and newer than Comair's. There is no comparison there.....we used to call one of the 172's niner niner Killer (5199K). But to be fair Comair does have some good maintenance people =) they need them too!

We (Comair) were always jealous of you guys flyin around in the practice area in your shiny planes (despite what any of my other Comair brothers say)

Take care.

 

[de Pez]

"Shiny airplanes"...Maybe you cared, but I didn't...A degree that cost $100,000 would pay for quite a few jars of turtle wax. Newer has nothing to do with better. In fact GPS/RNAV in aircraft diminish the training environment. A moving map is great, but what happens when you're sitting in a plane that's "slant alpha". Give me oil stained any day. I'd save the money and go wax my Audi.

 

[Long Time Gone]

HOWEVER, it is a hard place. Assume that 90% of those around you will be gone by the time you're an instructor. Don't plan on "family time" or flexibility on their part. You must give it 100% if you elect this route.

Not necesarily true (but not wrong, either)....I went to CAA, also, and had to sell cars full time in order to survive. Anything is do-able if you have to. I agree with 100%, though. I finished CAA (from Instrument to MEI) in 9 months (with 9 weeks worth of delays from wx to maint to waiting on a checkride) and paid $42.00 over my contracted amount. I've heard horror stories of people paying thousands over, but it's all in the learning ability as well as the instructor.

LTG

 

[hydroflyer]

I keep hearing varying cost estimates for DCA and how much it really cost someone that went there. I'm curious to know what time of day some of you were training. Did the people who paid closer to their quoted amount avoid the mid-afternoon rush of flying and stick to an early morning or late afternoon schedule? I flown some around the Orlando area and I just could not see how some of those instrument students could be getting their money's worth when they are number 8 and on a 20 mile final for 9L just for a single ILS. I would imagine a little research on the slower times for the airport could pay off huge with less time holding short to faster approach sequences.

 

[norskman2]

Long Time,

I'm curious, how hard was it attending CAA AND working full-time? I see most of the academies strongly advise against trying work while attending.

As you say, anything is do-able is you have to and really want to. I'm just wondering, how bad was it doing both?

 

[DHPFLYN]

I attended Comair cademy for a couple months. I am currently in the Sanford area still and have friends that have done the whole program and some that were rejected. I can tell you that whatever quote they give you that you are guarnteed to go over. If you want to start from private through MEI it will cost you close to 100,000 dollars. That doesn't include housing either. I have a couple friends that were instructors and one was taken aside because he wasn't charging the student enough for ground work. My friend had done so much ground already that there was nothing else to cover but the school still insisted on him charging the student for more time. I will tell you that it is true that if you do get on someone's bad side that is higher up it will come back to haunt you when you go through your interview to become a CFI for the school. They are also raising the mins for the instructors to get interviews in the next couple months so beware of that also. One other thing if you are going through and they don't need instructors they will make the interview so hard that you can't pass. They did that a couple times before especially after 9/11. Just don't believe that line that you will instruct for 8 months and off to the airline. I do have friends currently there and have been instructing for almost two years.
Comair does have good training and puts out great instructors but most of them arent ready for the regionals when they get there The school does almost nothing to prepare you for the speed of the jet. I have talked to many comair captains and they say that 90% of the instructors that get there are way behind and usually end up needing more time in the simulator and for IOE.

All I can say is good luck if you have more questions give me an email I can tell you more as i said i have friends currently instructing there and also met a bunch that werent hired and instructing at regional airline academy and air orlando

Good Luck

 

[DHPFLYN]

Also about your schedule if you are on the part 141 side you have no choice on your schedule. You find out about 700pm the night before.

 

[bobbysamd]

Comair, ahem, Delta Connection Academy, ERAU, and FSI

Riddle's maintenance dept. is out of this world, I would fly anything those guys work on and put my family in back without a second thought.

That is absolutely true. I instructed at ERAU-Prescott for 1 1/2 years. Maintenance was always first-rate. From Riddle I went to FSI in Vero. FSI's aircraft were similarly impeccably maintained, and available. I do not ever recall being maintenanced on a flight at FSI. At ERAU, there were always too many students and not enough aircraft, so it was hard to maintain continuity in training. Not to mention the roadblocks erected by the Riddle Runaround.

Further to DHPFLYN's comments, I interviewed at Comair. The 152 I flew was really tired. It must have been one of the old Airline Aviation Academy airplanes (the school was known as Airline Aviation Academy until Comair purchased it in about 1988). Before my check pilot and I taxied out, a 152 that was taxiing in had its taxi light on. In my presence this check pilot, who was an older man, stepped in front of the 152's path and started bellowing at the top of his lungs at the poor slob in the airplane, "SHUT IT OFF!! SHUT IT OFF!!" Meaning, the taxi light. Very unprofessional. I also did not care for how I was treated at the interview. I had traveled two-thousand miles for the interview, and the Chief Instructor gave me barely ten-fifteen minutes of his time. I wasn't hired, but what galled me was not receiving a rejection letter. Granted, no one likes to receive rejection letters, but after an applicant travels two-thousand miles for an interview a rejection letter or phone call is only common courtesy. I have learned that a company's hiring process is a good clue as to how you will be treated as an employee. Good thing, then, that I wasn't hired.

Also further to DHPFLYN's comments, flight schools are extremely political places. In other words, if you have designs on a job after you finish and/or with Comair, etc., no matter how badly you want to speak up, keep your trap shut. So many schools make people suffer BOHICA, as students and after as employees.

Finally, Tailplane, before you decide on Comair, do yourself a favor and check out FSI. Working there was insufferable twelve years ago because of the managers. They are no longer there. I worked with the managers who now run the place, and they are first-class people. For that matter, the training has always been first-class.

Good luck with whichever school you choose.

 

[Iceman21]

In fact GPS/RNAV in aircraft diminish the training environment. A moving map is great, but what happens when you're sitting in a plane that's "slant alpha".

Times are changing my friend, it is an old and tired argument that simply isn't true any longer

 

[~~~^~~~]

I went there. If they can put you in the right seat of a turbine aircraft 2 years earlier than an traditional FBO, what is the value there?... About half a million dollars, because that provides the possibility of being hired two years ealier at a major airline. (Somewhat convuluted math, but that's my personal reality)

HOWEVER, it is a hard place. Assume that 90% of those around you will be gone by the time you're an instructor. Don't plan on "family time" or flexibility on their part. You must give it 100% if you elect this route.

Who do you fly the DC-10 for?

As someone who has participated in the selection process at a Connection Carrier - I can pretty much assure you where you got your ratings does not matter. The only exceptions are the schools that offer internships. Being an intern allows a person to get to know all the management folks who can give one guy an advantage over an unknown candidate. But even then, I've seen interns I would like to hire turned away.

Our training department at ASA has had good experiences with FSI graduates. The SIM time does help prepare for the sim at the airline. Unfortunately on line, it does not do much because operating in and out of the World's busiest airport does have many distractions that the SIM can not replicate.

On line, the cargo guys seem to adapt the fastest. They are more used to real world IFR and the fact that most unusual occurrences are not V1 cuts, but things that break, then fix themselves, then ding again. What do you do when the answer is not in the checklist? How do you interact with your crew?

For the money, I don't know that the local FBO and most inexpensive Commercial / Multi can be beat. It is not the most "guaranteed" but in nearly the same time a conscientious student can land a job in the right seat of a King Air, or Cheyenne, and use that to get in a Citation, or better yet some sort of twin flying night cargo.

With three or four years of such experience and 3,000 hours a person might be able to bypass the regionals all together and that would be a very good thing!

Then I would come interview with you... Again, who are you flying the DC-10 for?

And half a million for two years as a pilot? Where is that happening at an airline that expects to hire anybody? American Airlines new pay scale is the reality that we are going to have to adjust to until ALPA stops its civil war with the regional guys and starts to "restore the industry."

~~~^~~~

 

[de Pez]

FedEx.

 

[de Pez]

To more fully answer the question...What is the value of being hired two years earlier at an airline? Assuming a mandatory retirement date of age 60 (Oct., 2027 for me), AND that there are no unforeseen career ending events (health)...Those final two years of service 2025 and 2026 are worth over half a million dollars easily at the widebody Capt. payscale...(The current [Dec 2003] FX widebody Capt. payscale is $206/hr with 15 yrs of service), plus 6% B-Fund, plus pension, 401K, etc. The difference between 23 yrs of service and 25 yrs, particularly when viewed in context of the higher paid final 2 years of a career is in fact, potentially more valuable than that because this example does not factor in cost of living increases (3%/year) and does not address the potential for raises at all. (See why I called it somewhat convuluted?)

 

[de Pez]

Iceman 21-

It is, in the training environment. I've flown with GPS, INS, VOR position updating software, and traditional VOR/DME/ADF equipped A/C. And once again, there are student pilots out there who can punch the "Direct Waypoint" button on a GPS and navigate, but if you turn it off, they can't find their way out of a paper bag...It's that simple. As a "mewly minted" CFI you should be aware of the "building blocks" method of instruction, and the VOR is a fundamental system in building navigation skills. I'm not saying it's better than GPS or INS, or LORAN for that matter, just that it's very important to be able to fly the aircraft and navigate at a basic level when half the panel goes dark some night, you're number two engine is burning, and you can't decide if you're "TO of FROM" relative to the station because you've always used the moving map display.

 

[stillaboo]

Times are changing my friend, it is an old and tired argument that simply isn't true any longer

I couldn't disagree more. If the computer does all of your situational awareness for you, when do you develop any yourself? It's the old practice makes perfect arguement: no practice developing a good sense of where you are leads to a pilot who would likely struggle if the fancy electronics were taken away.

In a more fundamental way, having to keep situational awareness in your head helps a pilot learn to multi-task, an invaluable skill when ATC is firing off instructions, your TCAS is giving you advisories, and the auto-pilot is MEL'd. Flying with steam guages and using your head to figue fuel burns, distance and position is a fundamental building block of being a good pilot.

Many 135 and 121 carriers still service airports with nothing but NDB's, and the aircraft flying into these locals often don't have GPS or intertial-nav systems either (or autopilots) - using these tools is not antiquicated just yet.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FedEx.

Dad retired from there after working for National, Seaboard, EFS Bahammas, Worldwide, Global and Tigers. Fed Ex was the only company he worked for that never furloughed him, or bounced his paycheck.

Congrads. Hope to get the interview to join you after another 370 hours of 121 PIC, not that I'm counting, or anything.

 

[de Pez]

~~~^~~~

I hope to see you here also.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Long Time,

I'm curious, how hard was it attending CAA AND working full-time? I see most of the academies strongly advise against trying work while attending.

As you say, anything is do-able is you have to and really want to. I'm just wondering, how bad was it doing both?

It wasn't easy. Luckily, my instructor requested early sessions for me, and they were mostly granted. That did help alot. On those days that they weren't, I just had to make due with what I could. Luckily also, I had a boss who was understanding up to a point. Eventually, I stopped selling my "quota" (not intentionally) and was fired.....but that was good, because then I could collect unemployment and still finish.

As said, it wasn't easy.

LTG

 

[buzzer]

Iceman...Purely out of me wanting you and your students to live long and have good carreers, give my opinion some thought. Just as you MUST be able to work, know and understand the modern avionics your aircraft may have, you MUST be able to do without their help. If not, you WILL be bitten hard at some point. I'm sure many others here would agree.
Cheers

 

[bobbysamd]

Pilotage, ded reckoning and E6-B v. GPS, RNAV, and state-of-the-art (?) avionics

Times are changing my friend, it is an old and tired argument that simply isn't true any longer

It is not an old and tired argument at all. In fact, with all the high-tech equipment available these delays, knowing basic navigation is more relevant than ever.

The reason why it is relevant is twofold: (1) To understand why these whiz-bang black boxes work you have to understand basic navigation. (2) More and more black boxes increase the chances of them failing at some point. Avionics reliability has improved, but they are certainly not infallable (though it still amazes me how a navcomm can fail and fix itself during the same flight!). If they do fail, what would be your backup plan if you are incapable of dialing in a VOR, tuning and identifying it, and centering the needle. Taking cross-bearings? Shooting a VOR approach.

I had an Italian student eleven years ago who would schlep his handy-dandy handheld GPS in the airplane with him. He had a great time playing with it. I feared that he completely missed the point about learning basic navigation.

It all goes to the building-block concept of flight training. Before you can use all that impressive glass, you have to build a good cross-check using the time-honored six-pack. Same with navigation. You have to know how to calculate a wind triangle, use landmarks on the ground, and deduce your ETA to a checkpoint to grasp how to program in waypoints.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: Pilotage, ded reckoning and E6-B v. GPS, RNAV, and state-of-the-art (?) avionics

It is not an old and tired argument at all. In fact, with all the high-tech equipment available these delays, knowing basic navigation is more relevant than ever.

Absolutely right. You'd be amazed at the number of times you hear conversations like this:

Pilot: "Uhhhh, So-Cal approach this is Bugsmasher 12345 VFR to Podunk, request VFR advisories."

So-Cal: "Bugsmasher 12345 say position"

Pilot: "Uhhh, I'm heading 327.3 degrees."

So-Cal: "No sir, where are you located right now?"

Pilot: "Uhhhhhh, I'm 163.2 miles from Podunk right now, I will arrive there in 1 hour 23 minutes and 18 seconds."

So-Cal: "Sir could you give me your location reference your nearest airport or navaid?"

Pilot: "Uhhhhhhhhhh....." (VERY long pause) "......I am 23.2 miles from the ABC VOR. It looks like ABC is on a 231.7 heading from where I am."

So-Cal: "Ok, 23 miles northeast of ABC. Squawk 1234 and say altitude."

Pilot: "Altitude 4500."

So-Cal: "Radar contact. Now I am having a hard time finding Podunk Airport. Could you give me the ID?"

Pilot (quickly responds): "KXYZ."

So-Cal: "OK thanks. Still not sure about where that is. Do you know what another closeby airport is in that area?"

Pilot: "Uhhhhhhh......"

This goes on and on. He knows where he took off from, he knows where he is going, he knows how far away it is to the tenth of a mile, he knows to the second when he will arrive there, he knows the heading he needs to fly right to the Nth degree, but he doesn't have the foggiest idea where he is, what he is close to, or what is near his destination. He probably has no idea how to read a chart, or use any of the other navaids in his airplane other than his GPS.

These type of conversations happen with alarming regularity. I think instructors are doing their students a disservice by not teaching them the fundamentals of basic navigation.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[huncowboy]

I can tell you that whatever quote they give you that you are guarnteed to go over. If you want to start from private through MEI it will cost you close to 100,000 dollars.

Where on Earth did you get $100,000 from? Why not $1,000,000? I am about to be done with my commercial rating from zero hours (may be 2-3 review flights, the final stage and the FAA) and have spent some $23-25k so far including books and everything. Right now I am not current with my accounting normally I would be able to give you an exact number. I am training at Broward county not at Sanford but regardless never ever have I heard anyone spending much over $50k at Sanford. Mostly it was around $50. I can imagine $55 can be realistic now. $100k is complete nonsense!

There was one guy here at Broward who was very slow he might have spent may be 10k over me, and he was at the exact same spot where I am right now. He finally left. I felt for him but it was obvious that this was his own problem. I never heard him complain either. Some people are slower.

The other comments about prices going up, and 1-2 years instructing seem to be correct. I am multiplying the quotes by about 1.3 when I try to figure out how much will something cost. But that goes ONLY for Broward. Not the main location.

 

[DHPFLYN]

If you don't believe it then go on up to Sanford and ask how much is being spent. Heck call the school add up all the flight time all the ground the checkrides books and everything rlse that they charge you. I know instructors there that have been pulled aside because they haven't charged there student's for ground that they don't even need. Those satelite flight schools are not even run the same. I can tell you that they in the next few months will be raising the mins for instructors to get interviews to atleast 1500TT then making you pay for a turbine transition course on top of that. All i can tell you is that you are sure lucky to be where you are and not Sanford

Good Luck

 

[huncowboy]

I don't need to go to Sanford I have been there (not training). So far I flew with at least 3-4 instructors who received their ratings there and talked to several others. 100k is BS. Sorry I don't want to offend you but there are no 2 ways about this.

The jet transition course was free for already employed CFIs or those already in the program, and the latest is that it will be free for a while. BTW when I 1st heard about the jet transition I was really pissed and I thought if they were to go through with it I was out. I just would not have had another 8k. You could get a type for that in a 737, not that it would be of any use at this point but still. Why not a full type in the RJ? I would rather pay for that than a "jet transition course"... at first it sounds like a "safe driver course" but my CFI told me that the curriculum actually looks real interesting and good. Anyways not an issue as it is offered for free and free is always popular.

I have heard nothing about new minimums like 1500. I just talked to my current CFI last week and he was almost counting on his fingers how many hours he has until 800 dual given.

Anyways... I felt I needed to comment on your post. No offense like I said, I understand some people don't like the DCA way... not for everyone. Good luck with your flying.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the academy. I went there got the rating I wanted and left. I am not a instructor that is against the school or anything like that. If they have changed and arent screwing with people that much then that is great! I am just telling him what I have heard and what friends have told me that currently go there. I do hope that they arent still telling people that they will instruct for 8 months and then have there interview? I do know and I am sure you do also that isnt happening most are there for almost 2 years and when you do get a interview there is up to a 5 month wait for your class date. But atleast it's a job !!

 

[huncowboy]

I agree with the 2 years instructing. Also the wait seems to be right with 5 months.

To be honest I am still wondering how the hell can they still hire new CFIs. At least the location I am at is already loaded with CFIs. I don't know about Sanford, I was there last time on my long solo and it was crowded with students and CFIs, I would say 40/60 stud/CFI just based on the image in my memory.

I am wondering how long can they keep going because I don't see many new students.