Delta and their scope!!

[Wiskey Driver]

I see that in dealing with you I must carefully choose my words.

No, you just have to stop talking out of your ignorant arse.

It should have been implied that court approval was necessary however you are scared and I can understand that.

You didn't imply anything, you quoted an obsolete decision and stated it was the LAW, which it is not.

Fact is that with the asking of the courts your contracts mean nothing.

Source? OOOppps, I'm asking too much of you.

Now go ask TWA how that works and I am sure you still won't understand.


Explain it too me, if you can? Somehow I think you can't. Again, just way above your level of understanding.

It and you are a waste of time, good luck with your stand alone plan and getting out of BK without giving up more in concessions than you already have.

WD.

 

[FDJ2]

It and you are a waste of time, good luck with your stand alone plan and getting out of BK without giving up more in concessions than you already have.

WD.

If you want to run with the big dogs WD, you're going to have to learn to not pee like a puppy. Trying to get something of value out of your posts was like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple. A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. I suggest you need Mark Twain's advice; "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

When you are at a loss for words, your loss is our gain. To quote Thomas Brackett Reed: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."

To sum up: you are about as smart as your rubber bow tie and two left shoes suggest, Bozo. Now, go curl back up in your corner, and continue chewing on your toenails.

 

[PCL_128]

Oh do I have it wrong?

Yes. On so many levels.

 

[General Lee]

If you want to run with the big dogs WD, you're going to have to learn to not pee like a puppy. Trying to get something of value out of your posts was like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple. A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. I suggest you need Mark Twain's advice; "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

When you are at a loss for words, your loss is our gain. To quote Thomas Brackett Reed: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."

To sum up: you are about as smart as your rubber bow tie and two left shoes suggest, Bozo. Now, go curl back up in your corner, and continue chewing on your toenails.

OOOOOOOOHHHHHH SNAP!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

This message is hidden because Doug Parker is on your ignore list.


Serenity now, serenity now.....
The funny thing is this little prick is nothing more than a mesa puke on the outside looking in!

737

 

[AA717driver]

FDJ and GL are starting to realize what I said the other day: Anything important to their career is happening so far out of the light of day that it will be done before anyone not REALLY (and that excludes ALPA) on the inside finds out.

The TWA MEC rep. to the BOD wasn't informed about the AA deal until after the Washington Post story breaking the news went to print--THAT is how far out of the loop the employees are in these types of deals.

PCL--You make Rez look like a genius... You're a little leaguer trying to play AAA ball.

Marko has the inside track--and no dog in the fight. TC

 

[Wiskey Driver]

If you want to run with the big dogs WD, you're going to have to learn to not pee like a puppy. Trying to get something of value out of your posts was like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple. A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. I suggest you need Mark Twain's advice; "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

When you are at a loss for words, your loss is our gain. To quote Thomas Brackett Reed: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."

To sum up: you are about as smart as your rubber bow tie and two left shoes suggest, Bozo. Now, go curl back up in your corner, and continue chewing on your toenails.

The quote Jacka$$ is "it's better to let the world think you are a fool then to open you mouth and clarify all doubt".

I was attempting to take the high road in your case, a place you obviously have never traveled.

Now again good luck with your weak stand alone plan and good luck with your impending pay cut.

Have a nice evening baby girl

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

OOOOOOOOHHHHHH SNAP!


Bye Bye--General Lee

He get's no love with that weak statement so get off his jock general. Big dogs more like furloughed little puppy.

WD.

 

[Doug Parker]

The funny thing is this little prick is nothing more than a mesa puke on the outside looking in!

737

You D!ckweed, I thought you were PSA - now you say you are MESA


All you will be hearing is "Gear Up + Cactus contact Departure"




.

 

[General Lee]

He get's no love with that weak statement so get off his jock general. Big dogs more like furloughed little puppy.

WD.

What? FDJ2 smacked your arse. And he and I both can hold MD88 Capt. Furloughed? Not even in your merger. But you on the other hand.....maybe. If our merger happens, CLT would go bye bye, and many would move to PHX, bumping you out. You should hope this thing doesn't get off the ground too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You D!ckweed, I thought you were PSA - now you say you are MESA


All you will be hearing is "Gear Up + Cactus contact Departure"




.

Have the USAir East guys started saying that yet? I bet they can't wait. Will they get DOH?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[spinproof]

Yes. On so many levels.

Typical political response. Whats your perspective at Pinnacle...Status rep, MEC , or just another unpaid lacky doing hours of volunteer work plus shelling out 2% to a bunch of bureaucrats in DC. Those same overpaid people finding busy work to justify being paid for producing little more than lip service.

Or are you really doing something important as being on an unpaid committee that actually does something positive for your pilot group.

You are right about one thing there are levels to this.....so many levels of incompetency that one has to wonder when it will implode under its own weight?

Worthless was the tip of the iceberg......many more have been sent packing...still the surviving bureaucrats crawl out from their hiding places like the prehistoric cockroach to survive another day.

You sir are still part of the problem...not the solution. So run along Sonny your Ideals are just but miserably misplaced in an organisation that will crush you one minute or put you on a pedestal depending on where their political winds blow.....that is unless you're one of them.....and of course you are useful..

 

[FDJ2]

The quote Jacka$$ is "it's better to let the world think you are a fool then to open you mouth and clarify all doubt".

Actually we both got it wrong:

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/369.html

The meaning is the same and it is just as applicable, since you can't get your facts straight, not even when you attempt to correct a simple quotation.:laugh:


I was attempting to take the high road in your case, a place you obviously have never traveled.

Oh Please, the entire purpose of you starting this thread is to flame pilots in bankruptcy who are already under enough stress. High road? Hardly.

You jumped on an obsolete court decision to make a point and then declare it the "Law", but all you did was display, for all to see, your utter ignorance of the law. Being on the high road is not a part of your pitiful existence.

 

[FDJ2]

The TWA MEC rep. to the BOD wasn't informed about the AA deal until after the Washington Post story breaking the news went to print--THAT is how far out of the loop the employees are in these types of deals.

April 4, 2001
T.W.A. Pilots Reach Accord With AMR


Trans World Airlines Inc. said today that its pilots reached agreements with T.W.A. Airlines L.L.C., the unit of the AMR Corporation's American Airlines that will operate as T.W.A.'s successor.
The agreements included amendments to provisions of the pilots' collective bargaining agreement pertaining to scope, benefits and successorship, said T.W.A. pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association International union.
The head of the T.W.A. pilots' union, Capt. Robert A. Pastore, in a letter to the chairman and chief executive of American Airlines, Donald J. Carty, said the pilots wanted ''to ensure a prompt closing'' of the acquisition of T.W.A., which they strongly support.'' Captain Pastore said the pilots ''expect issues related to the integration of our pilots into the American system will be fairly resolved with our participation.''

 

[Marko Ramius]

If our merger happens, CLT would go bye bye, and many would move to PHX, bumping you out. You should hope this thing doesn't get off the ground too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Since Parker says he would divest what doesn't fit, the real problem wouldn't be people moving to other bases, but people moved to other carriers or the street. AmWest's financial strength the last few years could actually hurt them a bit here as their aircraft lease rates haven't been artificially adjusted downward by the BK process like US and DL. If you were Parker whose airplanes would you want to sell?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

The quote Jacka$$ is "it's better to let the world think you are a fool then to open you mouth and clarify all doubt".

Actually we both got it wrong:

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/369.html

The meaning is the same and it is just as applicable, since you can't get your facts straight, not even when you attempt to correct a simple quotation.:laugh:


I was attempting to take the high road in your case, a place you obviously have never traveled.

Oh Please, the entire purpose of you starting this thread is to flame pilots in bankruptcy who are already under enough stress. High road? Hardly.

You jumped on an obsolete court decision to make a point and then declare it the "Law", but all you did was display, for all to see, your utter ignorance of the law. Being on the high road is not a part of your pitiful existence.

Same old tired insults. You are both weak and tired but not to worry help is on the way old girl!!

Once again you are totally wrong as to my intent but I guess that's another DAL pilot strong point, reading minds. I hear the Moak won't be allowed to testify, wow what a suprise That would be the walls closing in on you there partner. Keep up the very bad public image as it really shows the world all that DAL pilot class!! I also hear that you ladies plan to come and picket our HQ.Now that's really childish however we will welcome you with some good old southern hospitality!!

Time for you shut up now and accept the reality of being bought and paid for. Like I said you get to keep the Delta name but call sign cactus:laugh:

Later baby girl.

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Have the USAir East guys started saying that yet? As soon as we are single cert. but I told you this before!! I bet they can't wait. And your point is?? Will they get DOH? Doubtful as it's not in the merger policy but you know that too...


Bye Bye--General Lee

WD...

 

[Wiskey Driver]

What? FDJ2 smacked your arse. And he and I both can hold MD88 Capt. Furloughed? Not even in your merger. But you on the other hand.....maybe. If our merger happens, CLT would go bye bye, and many would move to PHX, bumping you out. You should hope this thing doesn't get off the ground too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Oh please Gen, he's done nothing but cry like a little girl. I told you both that I saw the proposal and it was all about mainline and getting rid of RJ's. He could have corrected what I copied and posted without all the drama yet he chose to attempt to make a name for himself, well he did that now he can be refered to as JackA$$!!!

I know many many good people at DAL two of which were my instructors. I don't want to see ANY pilot out of work, not even you two clowns:laugh:

The bottom line is we move metal and this is out of our control so what ever happens we ALL will just have to make the best of it...

WD.

 

[FDJ2]

Oh please Gen, he's done nothing but cry like a little girl.

And set you straight on the law, which you apparently didn't understand.

Next time you open a thread flame baiting a pilot group while they're in BK (very clASSy of you btw) I hope you get your facts straight from the start, that way you won't be made fool of so easily.

 

[poppi]

And set you straight on the law, which you apparently didn't understand.

Next time you open a thread flame baiting a pilot group while they're in BK (very clASSy of you btw) I hope you get your facts straight from the start, that way you won't be made fool of so easily.

There is only one reason Wiskey Driver is so bitter.
He interviewed at Delta and got turned down and now has to fly at AW.
I have a few friends there and they say its a mess.
Lets see last time AW was hiring nobody I knew even applied. It was considered a stepping stone and still is.

 

[737 Pylt]

Now again good luck with your weak stand alone plan and good luck with your impending pay cut.

Our stand alone plan is so weak that your boss is trying to derail it! LOL!!!!!!

Have a nice evening baby girl

WD.

You're reaching WD.....
But tha's become the norm with you!

737

 

[Marko Ramius]

I'd agree that we all just move metal, but why do you seem so excited for a deal to go through that isn't really good for you? I am sure whatever plan you saw was all about mainline vs. RJ's. Parker's aversion to widespread RJ usage has been known for a long time, it was known even before the UsAirways deal where he lamented the MDA/Republic deal. Working at America West, you should already know this but I'll say it anyway. Look at the pattern of RJ usage by Parker over the last few years. He shipped all of the 70's and many of the 50's away where they basically ended up in United Express service probably to the chagrin of your former colleagues at Air Wisconsin. He's basically stuck with the 90's because of scope issues at other carriers, so he spread them out to get them out of the way as much as possible. He sent them into non-hub stuff like Mexico and Canada service to LA, and alot of exploratory or incremental service out of Vegas to keep them out of PHX as much as could feasibly be done. Since the merger with Airways', I think he's sent a bunch of them cross country into the UsAir hubs to spread them out even farther. Again, this shouldn't be news to you and as such, why would it surprise you that Parker's merger plan with DL isn't heavily dependent on RJ's.

IOW the RJ thing should be irrelevant to you in this at this point, especially since you don't fly one. What should be relevant to you, is that your management has said that they are quite willing to fragment parts of the combined carrier. Do you know what the fragmentation percentages that trigger employees going with the assets are in the three contracts? I don't either, but that would sure be more interesting to me than bugging Delta pilots. If Parker proposes a deal that doesn't trigger a frag contractually, what do you think will happen to those surplus pilots?

Also have you considered the carriers that are in position financially to make deals with Parker on assets? AA(APA), WN(SWAPA), UA(ALPA), CAL(ALPA), B6(nada), and AirTran(NPA). If NW is going to be a player in this , now would be the time otherwise they may be too preoccupied with getting out of BK and getting exit financing to be involved. I'd be pretty worried about the fact that only two of those carriers are ALPA(fragmentation policy). Maybe the plan you saw didn't say anything about those MD-88's because he doesn't know what specifically he'll have to divest and to whom yet. I'd be worried about the fact that AmWest Airbus' and Boeing 737 aircraft are far more compatible(engines, cockpits) with say UA's vs. UsAirways' and DAL's. You could say the same for hardball 737 classics at UsAirways and DAL and WN's fleet. I could go on, but the point is still I'd be worried about a whole bunch of things other than bugging DL pilots.

Quotes that would have me looking for the Imodium AD:

"We did not plan a $10 billion-plus offer only to have it fail to succeed on antitrust grounds," said US Airways President Scott Kirby in an interview in which he indicated that US Airways would be receptive to whatever the department proposed. "We would be prepared to deal quickly with the [DOJ] issues," he said.

The Justice Department can provide initial feedback within 30 to 60 days, but reviews are extended because companies seek to negotiate the extent of their divestitures, Kirby said. "DOJ takes a long time because companies choose to let it take a long time," he said.


It is likely that a first round of divestitures would include gates and other assets in Atlanta, and gates and slots at New York LaGuardia and Washington Reagan National airports, as well as the shuttle, Dick said.
"Then they would focus on Charlotte," he said. "I think they'd like to see Charlotte divested as a hub, but I don't think that anybody would take a large chunk of it. So I think it's a matter of paring back there."


But wait, there is plenty of time to sort this all out and you won't still be too preoccupied with seniority list and contract integrations on a previous merger to effectively deal with this right?



Washington, D.C., antitrust attorney Jim Dick, who worked four years in the antitrust division, said he would expect a three- to five-month review. "Given the amount of data the DOJ would be reviewing and the complexity, they will want to figure very carefully what they would like the combination to divest," he said.


The Justice Department can provide initial feedback within 30 to 60 days, but reviews are extended because companies seek to negotiate the extent of their divestitures, Kirby said. "DOJ takes a long time because companies choose to let it take a long time," he said. Regulators took 14 months to reject the proposed 2000 merger of US Airways with United (UAUA - commentary - Cramer's Take). That is not a precedent, Kirby said, because, "The companies chose to have the process take 14 months because United got cold feet."


You also might want to remember that while the above only listed what assets might be required to be divested by the government, it says nothing about where the accompanying airplanes if any have to come from.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I'd agree that we all just move metal, but why do you seem so excited for a deal to go through that isn't really good for you? I am sure whatever plan you saw was all about mainline vs. RJ's. Parker's aversion to widespread RJ usage has been known for a long time, it was known even before the UsAirways deal where he lamented the MDA/Republic deal. Working at America West, you should already know this but I'll say it anyway. Look at the pattern of RJ usage by Parker over the last few years. He shipped all of the 70's and many of the 50's away where they basically ended up in United Express service probably to the chagrin of your former colleagues at Air Wisconsin. He's basically stuck with the 90's because of scope issues at other carriers, so he spread them out to get them out of the way as much as possible. He sent them into non-hub stuff like Mexico and Canada service to LA, and alot of exploratory or incremental service out of Vegas to keep them out of PHX as much as could feasibly be done. Since the merger with Airways', I think he's sent a bunch of them cross country into the UsAir hubs to spread them out even farther. Again, this shouldn't be news to you and as such, why would it surprise you that Parker's merger plan with DL isn't heavily dependent on RJ's.

IOW the RJ thing should be irrelevant to you in this at this point, especially since you don't fly one. What should be relevant to you, is that your management has said that they are quite willing to fragment parts of the combined carrier. Do you know what the fragmentation percentages that trigger employees going with the assets are in the three contracts? I don't either, but that would sure be more interesting to me than bugging Delta pilots. If Parker proposes a deal that doesn't trigger a frag contractually, what do you think will happen to those surplus pilots?

Also have you considered the carriers that are in position financially to make deals with Parker on assets? AA(APA), WN(SWAPA), UA(ALPA), CAL(ALPA), B6(nada), and AirTran(NPA). If NW is going to be a player in this , now would be the time otherwise they may be too preoccupied with getting out of BK and getting exit financing to be involved. I'd be pretty worried about the fact that only two of those carriers are ALPA(fragmentation policy). Maybe the plan you saw didn't say anything about those MD-88's because he doesn't know what specifically he'll have to divest and to whom yet. I'd be worried about the fact that AmWest Airbus' and Boeing 737 aircraft are far more compatible(engines, cockpits) with say UA's vs. UsAirways' and DAL's. You could say the same for hardball 737 classics at UsAirways and DAL and WN's fleet. I could go on, but the point is still I'd be worried about a whole bunch of things other than bugging DL pilots.

Marko,

I could really care less but these clowns come off as God's gift to aviation. Every other carrier is below Delta. We now see they are just like every other carrier out there and they too can go bankrupt!!!

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Our stand alone plan is so weak that your boss is trying to derail it! LOL!!!!!!

If it happens it happens if it doesn't then it doesn't. Either way nothing we do or say here is going to make a bit of difference!!

You're reaching WD.....
But tha's become the norm with you!

737

Reaching for what?? Explain yourself...

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

There is only one reason Wiskey Driver is so bitter.
He interviewed at Delta and got turned down and now has to fly at AW.
I have a few friends there and they say its a mess.
Lets see last time AW was hiring nobody I knew even applied. It was considered a stepping stone and still is.

Ahh no JR not bitter at all and never applied to Delta so never got turned down .


We are a mess huh, well we are one of the FEW carriers that posted profits all last year how much did you company post?? Ahh loss that is??

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

And set you straight on the law, which you apparently didn't understand.

Next time you open a thread flame baiting a pilot group while they're in BK (very clASSy of you btw) I hope you get your facts straight from the start, that way you won't be made fool of so easily.

First of all stop coming off like God's gift to the profession and people wouldn't come at you sideways!!! Second unless you are some sort of mind reader you have NO IDEA what my intent was, why?? Because as is the norm with you attack FIRST. You could have with ease stated that what I posted was no longer accurate instead you behaved like A$$. Also you never once inquired as to the intent of the original thread, yet you claim to know by reading minds. Neat trick there partner can you guess the powerball numbers too?? If so let on what the numbers are and we can both get rich and not have to worry about any of this .


WD.

 

[FDJ2]

You could have with ease stated that what I posted was no longer accurate instead you behaved like A$$.

Let me see, you start a thread with the following directed at a pilot group in BK, which is stressful enough, but now also the target of a hostile takeover attempt which has the potential of tanking their careers and you call me an A$$.

"So you see as stated in another thread, the Delta contract means very little in BK and can be broken.

Now I realize that many Delta folks don't want to know this but fact of the matter is it's the LAW!!!! Obestar can't help you!!!

WD."

What's worse yet, in your haste to tell Delta pilots that their contractual protections mean very little, you failed to adequately research your statement of the "LAW".

Why on earth are you even interested in propogating the notion that a CBA means very little, even if you truly believe it to fellow ALPA pilots who are in such a hostile environment and are struggling to exit BK?. Why not just STFU and keep it to yourself?

Oh, that's right, in a previous thread you stated you were just kidding and enjoyed yanking the Delta pilots chain. You are a sick puppy.

Stop embarrassing yourself, take a break from this forum and come back when you grow up just a little.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Let me see, you start a thread with the following directed at a pilot group in BK, which is stressful enough, but now also the target of a hostile takeover attempt which has the potential of tanking their careers and you call me an A$$.

"So you see as stated in another thread, the Delta contract means very little in BK and can be broken.

Now I realize that many Delta folks don't want to know this but fact of the matter is it's the LAW!!!! Obestar can't help you!!!

WD."

What's worse yet, in your haste to tell Delta pilots that their contractual protections mean very little, you failed to adequately research your statement of the "LAW".

Why on earth are you even interested in propogating the notion that a CBA means very little, even if you truly believe it to fellow ALPA pilots who are in such a hostile environment and are struggling to exit BK?. Why not just STFU and keep it to yourself?

Oh, that's right, in a previous thread you stated you were just kidding and enjoyed yanking the Delta pilots chain. You are a sick puppy.

Stop embarrassing yourself, take a break from this forum and come back when you grow up just a little.

So by YOUR assesment I am behaving poorly and by mine you are so here's an Idea, why don't we both lay off!!! I don't want anything bad to happen to your pilot group as I know many DAL pilots. What ever happens we all have to live with it like it or not...

WD.

 

[737 Pylt]

So by YOUR assesment I am behaving poorly and by mine you are so here's an Idea, why don't we both lay off!!! I don't want anything bad to happen to your pilot group as I know many DAL pilots. What ever happens we all have to live with it like it or not...

WD.

WD:
I now understand why you want this hostile takeover. In your infinite wisdom, you see the takeover as your chance to move up as your boss has quoted as saying he will honor the DL pilots' contract. Its a win/win for you (AWA) pilots. You bring nothing to this dance, not bigger eqp., , no better work rules, lousy pay, and an even worse scope clause.
I'll say this, I'll eat my crow if it happens, but if it doesn't will you?

737

 

[400ADude]

Marko,

I could really care less but these clowns come off as God's gift to aviation. Every other carrier is below Delta. We now see they are just like every other carrier out there and they too can go bankrupt!!!

WD.

Below in debt.:laugh: :laugh: