Delta Air to Unveil Plans For a Low-Cost

[Old Crow]

Not to be negative or pessimistic, but... "Young and Bouncy"? I think the days of Southwest style hiring are gone. If you offer someone minimum wage to work for anyone, you're going to get a minimum wage profile person. A person who has a GED or only highschool education could care less for Delta. They just want that check on Friday. Travel benefits...? What good are they when you work all the time and even more so, you can't afford to eat when you get there on that 19,000 salary.

Bottom line as always, "You get what you pay for."

 

[canyonblue]

I think the days of Southwest style hiring are gone.

I believe we still do "Southwest style hiring". But then again were still Southwest!

 

[acarpe3448]

Since being furloughed from Delta I am pretty far out of the loop, so I do not hear much gossip at all. I think that Delta Management must have grander ideas for this new LCC than just a NE-Florida-Midwest shuttle. With the 757 being used I think that you will see Delta using the new LCC all over the country, including the long haul coast to coast stuff. I sure hope that the new LCC is not going to be used to just replace current mainline flights, but to increase mainline flying. I think we have lost enough to DCI and it frightens me to think about what will happen when Force De Majure is declared over! A huge part of DCI's growth will have to be given up, because you know that the Delta Pilot's are going to ensure that planned percentages are upheld. If we do see some growth from this new LCC, I hope that some of our pilots, all of our pilots, are able to be recalled! Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that I have my $10 an hour job Managing a Mail box Etc, but I prefer to get back to work at Delta ASAP! Happy Holidays to all of you!

 

[General Lee]

First of all---"young and bouncy" is what I am like----I'm in my mid-thirties and I love my job. Good enough? Thanks.

Canyonblue,

Well, Southwest has been having problems with those famous 15 minute turns latley, huh? Security checks really screw up that process. Your whole game plan had to be changed, and a lot of frequency was dropped because you couldn't have service from LAX to OAK every 15 minutes. All I know is that we have been practicing on 757's in LAS some new quick boarding techniques, with dual PAX entry---front left and aft left entry. They want to clean and turn the planes in 30 minutes, which can be done when Flight attendants and pilots (??) help clean the plane. (hey, the pay is still really good for the pilots.....) Anyways, the game has
changed for everyone, even Southwest, which hasn't been in the top 5 for on time arrivals lately. And, our frequent flyer program is a hell of a lot better------Hawaii and Athens are some good choices, along with all of the Skyteam destinations. People will see the difference. When prices are equal, then other things start to matter---like frequent flyer miles (for the business guy) and airport lounges (especially with the possible new codeshare).

RJCAP,

I am not trying to be the "all knowing Delta pilot" so stop putting yourself down. You really don't know much about the Delta Express outfit, unless you flew it? I did. We had a good operation--with the wrong airplane. The 737-200 was slow, and a gas guzzler, and had no entertainment. But, the planes were always packed---with load factors in the 90's. A 757 will be stuffed also, but it will make more money for Delta--and have a movie to distract people that they are stuffed in there like sardines. We turned those 737-200's in 30 min every turn, but never used the planes after 12 am. The 757's might be flying allnighters thru LAS----which helps pay the daily lease rate and hence makes more money for Delta. The pay difference between 737 and 757 pilot maybe $30 an hour, and 1 passenger could easily pay the difference for both pilots. (the 757 will carry 79 more passengers) Anyways....the operation will be packed like the old Express, but make more money, which is good. Time to go now.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sierra-Hotel]

General Lee

Please don't bash my airline! Okay we haven't made the top 5 in OTP in the last couple mos......I like to think of SWA as a lean mean fighting machine. When it gets indegestion (security delays) that we get hiccups (delays). I think we stopped doing 15 min turns when I started here 2 years ago.....In any case we routinely do 25-35 min turns. As for you claims that our passengers will be flocking to Delta.....I find that laughable. I see the same passengers week to week. They enjoy flying our airline because of the price and quality of service we give here at SWA. As one passenger stated to me "I don't care if your late,but at least the employees at SW treat me with respect". We've done a lot in the last couple months to further streamline our operations and hopefully we will reclaim our #1 rank. You posted that now the pilots and F/As will now be helping out to clean up the cabin......I'm sorry to tell you but the flight crew here at WN have been doing that for the last 31 years. I'm really not trying to flame you,but I find that other airline employees tend to be very critical of SWA and their employees because we actually get along with each other and do whatever it takes to get the job done. Maybe if USAir,United,American,and Delta fostered that type of thinking they would not be in the dire financial straits they find themselves today.

 

[General Lee]

Oppsahh,

You are a really funny person. Why would you leave at 3am on one of our planes? You don't seem to understand, do you? Nope. Hello? The airplanes would be flying ALL DAY, and into the night? I guess you have never seen airline schedules out of LAS at night, huh? After flying two or three cross countries in one day, the plane arrives in LAS---full of gamblers---at around midnight from MIA or MCO (which Amwest and National did bringing in lots of pax) and then leave at around 1am---going East again---with plenty of broke gamblers----arriving early morning and allowing the plane to fly to Florida or where ever.
Do you understand now? I hope so. Can you turn a 757 in 30 min? I bet they will try----and who says we cannot do well as a LCC? Delta Express did fine---90 percent load factors, it's just we couldn't profit becasue our planes was too small and old---which sucked fuel. The 757 carriers more people and is fuel efficient---and can have movies to entertain people. What kind of people would fly for 19K a year? Ever been on a commuter or regional jet? Those flight attendants are usually happy to have a job and usually not old and mean like some of the mainline flight attendants (not all of them). How much do you think Jetblue Flight Attendants start at? I'll tell you---$16K a year and not many benefits-----and they live in $$ NYC. They seem to be doing well over there. Delta couldn't find hospitable people to work on the LCC? You are wrong, and now you know it. The job market is wide open, and they will interview to find fun people. Our President Fred Reid said he believes the LCC market will reach 1/3 of PAX flying within 5 years---and we have to do something to try to get a piece of that---and we will because we have a lot more assets than most majors, and we have more money to try.
I flew Delta Express---and it felt like a different airline---but the flight attendant, mechanics, everyone else other than the pilots were paid mainline rates. Now, it will be different---the planes will have more seats and more fuel efficient---and it will work.

Oppsahf, am I jealous? Heck no---I fly heavy 767-300's into Bermuda and make a great wage. I wouldn't trade what I do with anyone-----got it?

Sierra Hotel,

Can I bash your airline? Well, you bash mine. Great, you have repeat customers, yippy---so do we. I see the same passengers also all the time when I go to Nassau and San Juan---places Southwest probably won't go. A lot of our passengers love our frequent flyer program because it allows them to go to fun places like Rome and St. Thomas. We carry a lot more passengers than both you and Jetblue, and alot of our losses right now are one time charges (accounting practices), and when the economy comes back---and it will----people will realize that flying from BWI to LAX on your 737-700 isn't very comfortable---even with super friendly flight attendants---and go for our mainline product, which is more comfortable. Delta is losing money, but we have plenty to burn, and things are starting to turn around. (Fares are creeping up, especially for the holidays)
Ever been to ATL?---oops you don't go there. ATL is always packed, and they do a great job moving airliners there. Laugh away all you want Sierra Hotel, but when you see the LCC 757 at LAS or MCO or see one of our 767-300's or 400's, Caution Wake turbulence----it might be bumpy!

Bye Bye-----General Lee

 

[Sierra-Hotel]

I just hope DL mgmt knows how saturated the Las Vegas market is. SW and HP have that market sewn up.......if you think Delta's new LCC is gonna have a chance there,go talk to the N7 employees. I know we are considered to be the "red headed stepchild" of the industry,but you know what.....we don't care! On of the problems of today is that some airlines promise more than they can deliver....at SWA we promise:smiles,seats,snacks,and a safe arrival to your destination,and for the most part we deliver on that promise. Honestly I hope whatever you folks do works.....but I just want to point out the message Delta gave to their employees:Layoff 2,500 F/As but are hiring off the street for F/A spots at their new LCC. That's the reason why employee morale is so low at these companies.....I don't have to worry about that here, I have all the trust in the world in Herb,Colleen,and Jim's ablity to make decisions that will benifit this company without screwing over the employee group. In any case I just wanna remind you,General Lee:Each and Every airline that has made it a point to go after SWA has parked their airplanes in the desert.....even Delta Express. Just food for thought.

 

[Jeff G]

The airplanes would be flying ALL DAY, and into the night? I guess you have never seen airline schedules out of LAS at night, huh? After flying two or three cross countries in one day, the plane arrives in LAS---full of gamblers---at around midnight from MIA or MCO (which Amwest and National did bringing in lots of pax) and then leave at around 1am---going East again---with plenty of broke gamblers----arriving early morning and allowing the plane to fly to Florida or where ever.

This is exactly how redeyes work. JetBlue has been doing this almost from the get-go. But that's only one or two planes. What will you do with the other 25 or so that will be sitting around all night?

Do you understand now? I hope so. Can you turn a 757 in 30 min? I bet they will try----and who says we cannot do well as a LCC?

I'd like to see you turn a full 200-seat single-aisle airplane in 30 minutes. We can't get times much under 40 minutes at busy stations, with 162 seats and two boarding doors. Throw in a dozen wheelchairs and you're really in trouble. You'll probably end up seeing consistent 45 minute turns. If you get your times much under that, we'll be happy to steal your methods.

LUV can turn airplanes faster in part because of no assigned seating and in part because of low load factors (average in the 60's) on smaller airplanes (122 or 137 seats). It doesn't go as fast if you have full, larger airplanes.

How much do you think Jetblue Flight Attendants start at? I'll tell you---$16K a year and not many benefits-----and they live in $$ NYC. They seem to be doing well over there.

Well, no, I told you. JetBlue doesn't pay bottom basement wages. A first year line holder earns an average of about $2600/mo, and you can be a line holder in less than six months. That's not bad even by mainline standards. They're getting a raise, too, so it may actually be higher now. They don't have a pension, it's true, but they do have a 401(k) (so no pension underfunding issues) and profit sharing (13.5% of pay last year). BTW, many of our FA's commute so not everyone puts up with "$$ NYC". (Free unlimited flight bennies, too.) We also have the best FA jumpseat policy in the business. (We carry a whole lot of Delta FA's because they often can't fly on their own airline, or, gasp, prefer not to ). So, rumors to the contrary, we're not starving anyone.

But it's not the pay, it's the attitude. We hire for attitude, and so will you. You're going to attempt to have two different cultures at Delta. I hope it works for you, but that's a lot harder than starting from scratch.

 

[General Lee]

Ok, here I go again.

Sierra Hotel,

Do you know why Delta Express parked planes after 9-11? Because of Southwest? Get over yourself!! It was because that was where our bottom junior 400 guys sat---in the FO seat on Express 737's. When we had to furlough, we could not selectively choose who was to go. We had to park the planes because we didn't have any FO's to fly them. Get it? Delta Express was beating Southwest and Metrojet---we had more passengers than you did up and down the East Coast----yes we did--I saw the numbers. Our load factor on Express was the best in our system-------over 90%. I flew it, and we were always packed---and we flew to some cities that Southwest did not go---like EWR, BOS, BDL---and we will continue with the 757's and this time have a chance at a profit---and who will challenge us on those routes? Jetblue? The challenge us at JFK to Florida---but we still pack our planes because we have 19 767-300's fly in each day from Europe, and they help feed our flights from JFK to Florida. My brother just flew on Jetblue from SYR-JFK (He said he liked the experience) and connected on Delta to Amsterdam. He said there was a group tour of 70 old folks also connecting on Delta to Rome. All I have to say is Thanks!!!!!!

Jeff G,
Again I thank you for the above. Until you guys do international, I believe it will happen more often. So, a lot of your folks commute free to JFK. Hmmmm. They better on $2600 a month wages in NY. I thought all of your seats are full. It might get tough to commute eventually, and then they might not be as happy. Yes, there is a lot of grief by some of the unfortunate flight attendants who might get furloughed, but they had a chance to get a union, and they did not. Delta tries to make the ATL based flight attendants happy by giving them better trips out of ATL, and over 10,000 are based there, so if you make them happy---no union. You can gauruntee though that they will be interviewing, even furloughed FA's, and that if they aren't happy looking etc, they won't go there. You are right about loading a 757 in 30 mins would be tough, especially with wheel chairs etc.
But, we easily did it on the 737-200, and all we can do is try----and people have said that they are experimenting with new boarding procedures---stuff that United did on the Shuttle---that might expedite the process. And, the 757 is a fast plane, and will make up the difference in the air, trust me. (all we have to do is state the arrival time and add 20 min each time---easily making it on time---if we determine the route will take 3hrs---make it 3hrs 20 min in the schedule---then we have extra time---also to get food for the pilots..)

Would LAS be a challenge? Probably, but maybe not. All of national's gates are at our terminal in LAS. America West and Southwest have established themselves there, but so did National. But National never had deep pockets and didn't have International feed. Southwest and National shared markets in Reno, Chicago Midway, LAX, SEA, and that is it. Delta's LCC would
hit East Coast cities that Southwest has not touched---BOS, JFK,
PHL, MIA and FLL, PBI, etc. nonstop from LAS. Sure America West goes to some of them, but ther is room for a couple carriers on each, and National flew 7 million people in 3 years---which could be done again. Also, las Vegas has 22,000 hotel rooms available each night---and that will never change. And, there wouldn't just be 2 allnighters from Vegas a night Jeff G, there could be other city pairings for allnighters----like SNA to JFK, or OAK to FLL---who knows? Not you.

We have some smart guys running this airline. Even though I wish they treated the labor a little better sometimes, I think they have the resources, along with McKinsie Consulting, to figure out a good strategy. You guys will just have to wonder what will happen, and I don't think they are doing this in the blind. Think about it! They are paid in Delta stock, they don't go for risky stuff unless they know what will happen.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Oppsahh,

You are nuts! Do you see what you are saying? After 9-11 ther was a large scare at Delta, as well as other airlines probably, and they decided to start furloughing. They decided on 400 for the initial number. How would they reassign pilots? How? Other planes were still flying with their original pilots. And how long would it take to train 400 pilots? Figured it out yet genius? They had to furlough via senority-------and Express paid the least (better than your 5 year FO's at SW), so they were gone. The November 1st, 2001 furlough had the bottom 400. See? Are you there yet? We parked 25 737-200's. (most are back now going to CVG eventually) Got it?

Also, when you said Southwest would be doing the allnighters also if profitable. Well, we used to fly a lot of allnighter out of LAS each night-----to MSY, BOS, JFK, MCO (I flew a 767-300 allnighter from LAS-MCO once), TPA, CVG, DFW, and ATL. We probably will do it again with a lower cost structure at the LCC. Businessmen like allnighters so they can get a jump on business or get some sleep. And, it helps paying off our daily lease rate on each aircraft.

Also, I was wrong about BDL---Southwest does go there, sorry.

Delta's new LCC may surprise everyone, and maybe it will fit right in there and take a large chunk of the Low Cost market. We have to try, and we have smart guys working on it, and we have the ability to do it. We'll see how it works, but don't count us out already.

Bye Bye--General Lee