Degree - "NOT REQUIRED"

[killjack]

I am not a big conspiracy guy, but--- I have noticed in the last 4-5 years at the so called "Regional Airlines" that the majority of the pilots being hired only have a two year degree or none at all? While I do not believe it takes a "Rocket Scientist" to fly these jets, I do prefer a college graduate at the controls. It gives the career and the profession a more respectable position, and the ability to demand a professional pay scale. I believe that the Airlines are actually looking at hiring the two year degree or no degree applicant to fly their jets. This will allow them credibitly with the NMB during negotiations to throw out - well only 25% of the pilots at XYZ airline have a 4 year degree. So we should look at non professional payscale - and turn this into, forever, a 60,000 a year job. Just a thought - KJ

 

[T-Gates]

I am not a big conspiracy guy, but--- I have noticed in the last 4-5 years at the so called "Regional Airlines" that the majority of the pilots being hired only have a two year degree or none at all? While I do not believe it takes a "Rocket Scientist" to fly these jets, I do prefer a college graduate at the controls. It gives the career and the profession a more respectable position, and the ability to demand a professional pay scale. I believe that the Airlines are actually looking at hiring the two year degree or no degree applicant to fly their jets. This will allow them credibitly with the NMB during negotiations to throw out - well only 25% of the pilots at XYZ airline have a 4 year degree. So we should look at non professional payscale - and turn this into, forever, a 60,000 a year job. Just a thought - KJ

What, so since I fly professionally without a degree I deserve less than professional wages??

Can you actually tell a diffrence between a pilot with a degree and one without in the cockpit?

C'mon YIP, help me out....

 

[SYXDude]

While I do not believe it takes a "Rocket Scientist" to fly these jets, I do prefer a college graduate at the controls.

Having a college degree doesn't make a person smarter. Plenty of people with a 4-year degree who are dumber than a bag of rocks. On the flip side, plenty of people without the degree who are incredibly intelligent. Skill and ability are far more important than having a piece of paper. All a degree shows is someone checked-off that "box" in life.

So you think a dumb pilot with a degree should be paid more than the smart pilot without the degree???

 

[Bluto]

What makes you think the majority of people hired at regionals don't have 4-year degrees?

 

[killjack]

Having a college degree doesn't make a person smarter. Plenty of people with a 4-year degree who are dumber than a bag of rocks. On the flip side, plenty of people without the degree who are incredibly intelligent. Skill and ability are far more important than having a piece of paper. All a degree shows is someone checked-off that "box" in life.

So you think a dumb pilot with a degree should be paid more than the smart pilot without the degree???

This is not a personal attack on pilots flying the line w/o a degree. I have flown with great pilots with and w/o degrees. But I do believe that lowering the standards for entry will eventually lower the pay. (How it can get any lower is beyond me). I do believe that "checking the block" is a negative statement made by the "have nots", and belittles the pilots that do have degrees, and have sacraficied and worked hard for them. " Riddle me this BATMAN" - why do three out of the four military flight schools require a four year degree? Why do the Majority of the "Major Airlines" require or prefer, applicants with Four year degrees? As I have stated before, this is not an attack on individuals without degrees. But it is an observation that, Management is hiring a larger percentage of pilots without them. And I believe that this will come up during negotiations of future contracts in the Regional Sector, and fall in favor with management. It also gives them a pilot group that will not turn over, i.e. pilots without four year degrees will most likley not move on to the majors who do require them. (but then again pilots with and without are not moving on to the majors) -- just a thought - not a shot - KJ

 

[rvsm410]

Its not the degree...

If you are concerned about the entry level and regional pay scales, lets forget the degree crap and look at enon 101, supply and demand....

If all aviation people would stop accepting the sorry salaries being offered to start then the employers would get the message that they have to bring the wages up....

Alot of friends of mine and myself have told many of the regional airlines that we cant work for those wages, sure we probably will never work for an other airline again, but who cares? you have to live and support yourself and family....there are other jobs that pay way beter than the airlines these days.....I love to fly and love to dispatch, but it looks I'll be doing so in the corporate world....

Stop selling your souls to get an airline job...they need to pay better and be more respectful of the employees....Rant off

 

[SRJ]

Bill Gates does not have a college degree.....I think he should go back and get one so he can make it in life.

 

[Herman Bloom]

"What, so since I fly professionally without a degree I deserve less than professional wages?? "

Yes.

"Can you actually tell a diffrence between a pilot with a degree and one without in the cockpit? "

Yes (not talking about the flying skills here).

"Bill Gates does not have a college degree.....I think he should go back and get one so he can make it in life."

Just a shot in the dark, but my guess is that you are no where near as smart as is Bill Gates. And by the way, Gates spent three years at HARVARD before dropping out. Could you get into Harvard?

Airlines should require a college degree. It would go far to improve the reputation of pilots in general...maybe restore some of the long lost prestige the position use to carry.

 

[UPSer]

Guess I should just quit, seeing that with no degree I'm not qualified to fly for my company. Heck since I only have a 1.7 high school GPA, maybe I shouldn't even have a private pilots liscence. Any of you with college degrees feel free to take my job as you are more qualified than I.

 

[Brett Hull]

If you are concerned about the entry level and regional pay scales, lets forget the degree crap and look at enon 101, supply and demand....

You'da thunk they'da learned him that in kollage.

The college boys who have been running the unions for the past 10+ years sure haven't been doing a good job of keeping the pay up.

He!!, the MBA's running the airlines haven't exactly been stellar, either.

 

[Herman Bloom]

Maybe if we all had degrees (if it were required for application, for instance), then pilots wouldn't constantly back themselves into corners regarding things like compensation and contracts, in general. Educated pilots would be more likely just to quit when the salaries spiraled too low because they'd realize that they had other things to offer/do with their lives.

If you want the prestige and the money, we gotta require degrees. Ever meet a doctor who didn't go to college?

 

[shamrock]

Airlines should require a college degree. It would go far to improve the reputation of pilots in general...maybe restore some of the long lost prestige the position use to carry.

Why would they want to limit the pool that they draw from by requiring a degree?

They already love that an airline pilot's reputation is of someone who makes $300K a year and flies 8 days a month, so they wouldn't want that to change.

They couldn't care less about restoring any "prestige" to the job. The opposite would seem to be true.

 

[sf3boy]

I believe that doctors are required to go to med school because they can't go out to their local hospital/clinic and take lessons for two hours a day from an instructor doctor.

Soooo, I guess we should eliminate the FBO's and flight schools that do not offer a college degree.

As stated before, I wonder how many MEC leaders, line pilots, and execitives at United and US Air have degrees. They sure aren't doing crap for the pay of their (majors) airlines.

 

[sf3boy]

Another theory of the "regionals" hiring uneducated people could be that they are less likely to be able to get a job at the majors down the road. Less training costs for these punk and roller outfits like Comair, Eagle, COEX and the like.

 

[UPSer]

Maybe if we all had degrees (if it were required for application, for instance), then pilots wouldn't constantly back themselves into corners regarding things like compensation and contracts, in general. Educated pilots would be more likely just to quit when the salaries spiraled too low because they'd realize that they had other things to offer/do with their lives.

Gee, look at all the "educated" Riddle, UND, etc. pilots working at the regionals now. I guess they will all quit and take their aeronautical science degrees and get a "high paying" job outside of aviation.

 

[Brett Hull]

Maybe if we all had degrees (if it were required for application, for instance), then pilots wouldn't constantly back themselves into corners regarding things like compensation and contracts, in general. Educated pilots would be more likely just to quit when the salaries spiraled too low because they'd realize that they had other things to offer/do with their lives.

If you want the prestige and the money, we gotta require degrees. Ever meet a doctor who didn't go to college?

Huh? A majority of pilots do have degrees...in Aeronautical Science or Professional Aeronautics or whatever the school they went to calls it.

So where does that leave us now? Every pilot should have a degree in something, as long as it isn't in aviation? You could get a degree in elementary or secondary education, but then you couldn't leave flying and make better money teaching. So now you require pilots to have a degree in something that isn't aviation, education, or (insert low paying career requiring a college degree here).

Maybe you guys need to stop making a mess in your pants because you're going to get to wear a spiffy polyester suit and fly a jet, and collectively grow a pair and demand decent wages.

 

[SRJ]

"Bill Gates does not have a college degree.....I think he should go back and get one so he can make it in life."

Just a shot in the dark, but my guess is that you are no where near as smart as is Bill Gates. And by the way, Gates spent three years at HARVARD before dropping out. Could you get into Harvard?

A. I have a degree (not from Harvard) but never claimed to be as smart as Gates.
B. No I could not get into Harvard, why do you think I am an airline pilot?
C. What's eating your a$$?

 

[EV120]

Sooo...my anthropology/archaeology degree makes me a better pilot how?



Oh I get it, so I can excavate your crash site in a few years. Whatever.

 

[T-Gates]

"What, so since I fly professionally without a degree I deserve less than professional wages?? "

Yes.

What diffrenece does it make?! Granted I may have not gone to college, but how could you justify paying someone less if they don't have a degree? If I was to go get a degree in say, Religious Studies, would I then be considered a true professional? Considering it has no relation to the job at hand whatsoever.

"Can you actually tell a diffrence between a pilot with a degree and one without in the cockpit? "

Yes (not talking about the flying skills here).

Okay fine, so I may not know what it's like to get wasted at a Frat house and go streaking through the Quad... But really what diffrences do you see that are so compelling that you want a non-educated "B-Scale"??

Do you always have personality issues with those pilots without a degree? Is it really that much of an issue to you? When I step in the cockpit with someone, I don't care what thier background is, college or not. I just care if the person is someone I can spend a few days with and have a safe, fun time.

"Bill Gates does not have a college degree.....I think he should go back and get one so he can make it in life."

Just a shot in the dark, but my guess is that you are no where near as smart as is Bill Gates. And by the way, Gates spent three years at HARVARD before dropping out. Could you get into Harvard?

Now hold on, per your standard, he is still not a college graduate! Should he be subjected to a "B-Scale" of CEO Wages? Or do you have a double standard? Should we all now take IQ tests to determine our payscale?

Airlines should require a college degree. It would go far to improve the reputation of pilots in general...maybe restore some of the long lost prestige the position use to carry.

The general public's perception of pilots is that we are all highly educated individuals. Which is TRUE! Name another job where every 6 months you have to perform to high standards and pass a checkride or you don't get to keep your job...... Just because I don't have a degree doesn't make me "not" educated. I may not be highly educted in Calculus, or The Histrory of Mesopotamia, but I am dam n well educated in all the matters that relate to being an aviation professional.

 

[Herman Bloom]

"Okay fine, so I may not know what it's like to get wasted at a Frat house and go streaking through the Quad."

Come off it. If that's what you think college is all about, well then maybe its a very good thing you didn't waste anybody's time by attending one.

Fight it all you want, but the bottom line is that a college degree helps one get along in life. Not having one doesn't make you a bad person, and none of this has any bearing on flying skills in general. I just don't see how it could hurt the profession to require that airline pilots earn a degree first.

Doctors, Lawyers, TEACHERS...they all must complete a degree. Why shouldn't we?