Define a LONG LANDING...

[Lrjtcaptain]

alrighty.......

is a long landing when a plane wants to land lets say midfield to exit at a taxi way ASAP that gets him as close to his parking spot the quickest

or...

land normaly and just taxi normal speed down the runway until you exit where you want to????



-----Dumbass pilot the other day got in an argument with me over this.

 

[SiuDude]

alrighty.......

is a long landing when a plane wants to land lets say midfield to exit at a taxi way ASAP that gets him as close to his parking spot the quickest

or...

land normaly and just taxi normal speed down the runway until you exit where you want to????



-----Dumbass pilot the other day got in an argument with me over this.

The first.

 

[skeezer]

I choose option A.

IMO Option B would require asking the controller if one could "roll-out to the end" of the runway or some distant turn-off.

Skeezer

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

thank you so much.....this idiot asked for along landing to exit a taxi way about 4,000 ft down my runway....i approved it, close behind him is a cherokee, all i needed was this B35 past the 3000ft marker and they can both be on the runway at the same time.


Anways, he touches down in the first 500ft of the runway and hits a taxi speed, told him to exit at bravo and he argued with me.

This is a pilot who has taken off with out a takeoff clearence, argued with me that "postion and hold" means to hold short of a runway, and one day due to busy traffic we couldn't get a crossing for him from one side of the runway to the other.....his response...."GET WITH THE PROGRAM." Im writing this guy up next time. Ive had it.

 

[501261]

thank you so much.....this idiot asked for along landing to exit a taxi way about 4,000 ft down my runway....i approved it, close behind him is a cherokee, all i needed was this B35 past the 3000ft marker and they can both be on the runway at the same time.


Anways, he touches down in the first 500ft of the runway and hits a taxi speed, told him to exit at bravo and he argued with me.

This is a pilot who has taken off with out a takeoff clearence, argued with me that "postion and hold" means to hold short of a runway, and one day due to busy traffic we couldn't get a crossing for him from one side of the runway to the other.....his response...."GET WITH THE PROGRAM." Im writing this guy up next time. Ive had it.

GOOD!

As much as I hate to see any pilot violated, we really need to work together. From what you’re saying it appears that he really needs this guy needs some humble pie.

Now having said that, it appears that you let this idiot in the Bonanza put you in a bad position. You approved his request for a long landing, when this knucklehead landed 2000’ short, he was legal. While I agree with your definition of a long landing, I don’t think you’ll be able to find a violation in a short long landing.

You should have had the Cherokee go around, sorry.

Remember this idiot’s N number, expect him to do something idiotic, and don’t take it out on the rest of us dumb pilots that try to do the right thing but sometimes make a mistake.

 

[350DRIVER]

is a long landing when a plane wants to land lets say midfield to exit at a taxi way ASAP that gets him as close to his parking spot the quickest

I would also go with option number 1 on this one. I would sometimes do this practice and as a courtesy I would also just give the controller a heads up to make sure he didn't have any objections depending on the traffic flow and I didn't want to throw his sequencing off either... Most were happy and thanked I for giving them a heads up.

This is a pilot who has taken off with out a takeoff clearence, argued with me that "postion and hold" means to hold short of a runway, and one day due to busy traffic we couldn't get a crossing for him from one side of the runway to the other.....his response...."GET WITH THE PROGRAM." Im writing this guy up next time. Ive had it.

Sounds like this pilot needs a reality check... Just my $.02, just a matter of time before his antics kill someone.

3 5 0

 

[EagleRJ]

I'd say #1 would be what is expected of GA pilots.

However, #2 is what 121/135 aircraft would do. I've used this to take a turnoff farther down the runway, while still landing in the touchdown zone as I'm required to do...

 

[BRIGADEAVIATOR]

Im also going with number one (coming from a cessna pilot perspective)

Like with everything don't let one knuckle head make us all look bad.

 

[Uncle Sparky]

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w000305.htm

.......but seriously......From a pilot to a controller.......

If I want to land well past the TDZ, due to taxi-way proximity, I will request to "land long".

If I feel that there is no conflicting traffic, I want to touch down normally at the 1000' mark and then taxi to an exit that is well past what would normally be expected by the controller and I want to notify the controller of my intentions for his planning, I'm going to request "to roll it to the end".

Both techniques accomplish the same thing from a pilot's standpoint(roll it to the end being safer IMO) BUT, as implied, it just common courtesy to communicate to the controller, which version you intend to perform.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I would say that the Bone driver falls under the catagory of "idiot".

 

[groundpointsix]

No arguement that this guy is a tool, but I think this is a good demonstration as to why we should all use standard phraseology, and to clarify what someone is saying when they don't.

BTW, I would have interpretted it the 1st way as well.

 

[seethru]

Typically I try to avoid honking on the brakes after touch down. The drag from flaps and friction from the tires do a pretty good job slowing us down.

But I would never creep along at taxi speed on a runway I just landed on unless specifically requesting it from the tower controller. Even then my hair stands up on the back of my neck for fear of what may be behind me.

It sounds like this yayhoo needs an attitude adjustment. I would try to keep specific (meaning written) details about his actions.

It's only a matter of time before he causes an accident.

Clear skies.

Greg

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

we have all of his mishaps documented. The one that erc's us the most is two weeks ago he requested an ifr ontop clearence, we issued it to him, and ground told him to switch to tower, well, he took that as a cleared for atakeoff and did with out any call to tower freq. Of course we didn't write him up because we never do that. but we are all in agreement that his next deviation is getting written up.

The long landing wasn't a devaition whatsoever....just goes to show you how ignorant people can be. I know 121/135 are putting it down in the touchdown zone but a little part91 vtail could easily land midfield....and even if he touched down in the touch downzone he could have kept his speed up, but he didn't, he just got to a taxi speed and i booted him from the runway.

 

[Clyde]

alrighty.......

is a long landing when a plane wants to land lets say midfield to exit at a taxi way ASAP that gets him as close to his parking spot the quickest

or...

land normaly and just taxi normal speed down the runway until you exit where you want to????



-----Dumbass pilot the other day got in an argument with me over this.

How about a landing in which you exceed the first 1/3 of the availble runway before you touch down?

 

[tathepilot]

all i needed was this B35 past the 3000ft marker and they can both be on the runway at the same time.

sorry for the 'jack', but what is the criteria to have 2 a/c on the same rwy?

 

[seethru]

The one that erc's us the most is two weeks ago he requested an ifr ontop clearence, we issued it to him, and ground told him to switch to tower, well, he took that as a cleared for atakeoff and did with out any call to tower freq. Of course we didn't write him up because we never do that. but we are all in agreement that his next deviation is getting written up.

As was mentioned earlier in another post, I don't like necessarily going out and reporting people on every little mess up. After all, we are human, and mistakes are made.

From what you're describing however, this guy needs to be grabbed by the "short hairs" and brought to task. Clearly he is a danger to not only himself, but everyone around him.

Look at it another way. If he causes an accident tomorrow that gets somebody else killed, can you say that you did everything possible to prevent it from happening, given his history with you. I can only imagine what this bozo does at uncontrolled fields... there goes the hair on the back of my neck again!

Greg

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Runway seperation criteria for dummies, by Angry Mark

CAT1=singles less then 12,500
CAT2=Multi's less then 12,500
CAT3=Jets and anything over 12500

CAT1 landing behind CAT1 i need 3000ft of runway seperation, 2 on the runway is legal

CAT1 behind CAT2 same as CAT1 behind CAT1

CAT2 behind CAT1 is 4500ft of runway seperation, 2 on the runway is legal

CAT3 = anytime a CAT3 is involved its 6000ft and clear of the runway. 6000 really only applies on takeoffs.

Pretty much the same for takeoffs, same distances however we require the first plane to be airborne, but the distances are still the same.

 

[propilot1983]

Question for Ljcaptain-

This question came up a couple of nights ago at Standiford in Louisville...what is the time separation between categories of aircraft in relation to wake generated by cat 2/3 aircraft. I took an ATC class when i was in college, but that was a couple of years ago and can not remember.

thanks

 

[KigAir]

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w000305.htm

.......but seriously......From a pilot to a controller.......

Anybody know what happened to that pilot?

 

[350DRIVER]

Anybody know what happened to that pilot?

Both were F I R E D so I heard...

3 5 0

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Question for Ljcaptain-

This question came up a couple of nights ago at Standiford in Louisville...what is the time separation between categories of aircraft in relation to wake generated by cat 2/3 aircraft. I took an ATC class when i was in college, but that was a couple of years ago and can not remember.

thanks

It only applies to Heavy's and 757's using the full length of the runway

2 minutes between any plane and a heavy or 757. Time starts when the hvy/757 begins takeoff roll.

opposite direction, 3 minutes from time ac rotates. That applies to anything larger then the aircraft departing second...

A DC9 takes off 27, then its 3 minutes before a c150 can depart 09.

Intersection departures greater then 500ft from begining of runway is 3 minutes and waivable...IE...you can request to wave the time of three minutes. Not applicable to heavy or 757.

Touch and go, low approach etc....consider intersection departures, so you have 3 minutes wake turbulance behind a CAT3 if a C172 is doing a touch and go its 3 minutes or have them maintain visual seperation reference to wake turbulance, then give the cautionary.

Small and small+ cannot taxi into position and hold behind a departing heavy or 757 unless the ATC has a waiver. ORD has a waiver or they would never get anything done!

I may have missed a few rules but i don't apply too many due to the fact the largest thing we deal with are 737's. But opposite direction and touch and go crap is a daily basis. IM sure i confused you all.

 

[146guy]

Intersection departures greater then 500ft from begining of runway is 3 minutes and waivable...IE...you can request to wave the time of three minutes. Not applicable to heavy or 757.



you can't waive this if its night either, right? I think thats what I remember from my ATC class.

 

[PropsForward]

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w000305.htm

.......but seriously......From a pilot to a controller.......

If I want to land well past the TDZ, due to taxi-way proximity, I will request to "land long".

If I feel that there is no conflicting traffic, I want to touch down normally at the 1000' mark and then taxi to an exit that is well past what would normally be expected by the controller and I want to notify the controller of my intentions for his planning, I'm going to request "to roll it to the end".

Both techniques accomplish the same thing from a pilot's standpoint(roll it to the end being safer IMO) BUT, as implied, it just common courtesy to communicate to the controller, which version you intend to perform.

Is this the one that happened in Phoenix, AZ?

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Intersection departures greater then 500ft from begining of runway is 3 minutes and waivable...IE...you can request to wave the time of three minutes. Not applicable to heavy or 757.



you can't waive this if its night either, right? I think thats what I remember from my ATC class.

According to the 7110.65 there is nothing said about night and wake turbulance. The only night thing i can think of that you may be talking about in regards to intersections is that a plane can not taxi into position and hold at night at an intersection. This rule was created after the infamous USAir Skywest collision in LAX due to Controller ERROR.

 

[Loafman]

Long Landing = Removing mud and grass from undercarriage.