Decisions, Decisions!!!

[THEPRFCT10]

Fellow aviators...

I was just wondering if anyone had suggestions of the best timeline/way of taking care of things with respect to getting out of the AF versus staying in. My pilot training commitment (8 year) is up Feb 2008--these next 2 years I'm sure will go by fast. Not sure how good the bonus sounds anymore! Trying to see about KC-10 reserves at McGuire and do the airline cargo thing. UPS is sounding great! Very hard right now with so many things uncertain--especially financially. Trying to see how the cargo guys match up to the military with respect to health and family medical/retirement benefits! Anybody? Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Goose17]

plan ahead

I got out in 01 and fly for FedEx now. I, and most others, could type pages of thoughts on the subject, but I will keep it short and simple.

It is good to plan ahead and get all your ducks in a row well ahead of punching out. I would not close any doors though in case the "getting out" options doesn't quite work. Get SOS done, suck up to your brass, and keep working hard until the day you leave. In the mean time, once you have 1500 hours (excluding other time) get your ATP. About a year out, start getting all your applications in. Don't be too focused by only applying to UPS. Apply to every airline without pilots on furlough. Hit the majors left standing, the LCCs, regionals, cargo, etc - hit them all. Keep updating and network, network, network. As you get closer to your separation date, get your FE written and make sure your class-1 is up to date.

Most importantly, have a sizable amount of cash stored up. This will only create options for you. Be prepared to take the $18k/year regional job for awhile until you are hired by another outfit. It would be mighty difficult to feed the family, pay the mortgage, etc when you have no $ saved up.

It is good you are planning 2 years out.

Goose17

 

[Vingus]

I've been out for 1.5 years now and work for a major passenger carrier.

Benefits are different that the military:

1) Health Care. Get ready to pay out of pocket for part of your insurance coverage, then pay for a deductible, then pay for the copay. You will miss the free Tricare as I do (probably). My out of pocket is about 350 a month for health insurance, I have to fill a 500 family deductible, then pay about 10-15 % copay. This does not include dental/vision/loss of licence/short term disability insurance. I would say that I probably pay about 600/month on my benefits.

2) Retirement. Most passenger carriers have forfeited their retirements. Cargo guys are the last to have those....but for how long. Some of the retired/about to retire guys at the majors are very screwed because of this. My airline has profit sharing (which is very tied to the economy of the airline) and a 401K plan. My airline currently matches the first 3% of my deduction. I can contribute up to 10% each month to the 401K. I also have a stock purchase plan where I can buy my airlines stock at a 15% discount. It's a good deal, as long as we are making money and the stock doesn't drop. I also was issued a good deal of stock options when I got hired. I think they will be worth several hundred thousand dollars in the next 10-15 yrs.

3) Vesting. The big advantage to the airlines vs the military is that you vest in the above programs much faster. The military won't give you a dime of benefits unless you go 20 yrs, but you get to keep your 401K if you change jobs and you get ownership of your stock options quickly.

Hope that answers some basic questions.....

 

[srjorion]

Most importantly, have a sizable amount of cash stored up. This will only create options for you. Be prepared to take the $18k/year regional job for awhile until you are hired by another outfit. It would be mighty difficult to feed the family, pay the mortgage, etc when you have no $ saved up.
Goose17

If you wind up having to go to a regional first like me then this info is huge. Even with a Reserve job it is very important to have a lot of money saved up since you will not be able to make up the difference by flying mil time while in training. I wound up paying a lot of my bills out of savings while in training and would have been in a world of hurt if I didn't have that. ~$20K a year hurts bad, especially if you have a family to feed. Start saving now and if you are lucky enough to get a great job right off of active duty then you will have that much more to invest or spend.

 

[learherkjay]

1. Get to know the guys in your squadron that are a). hired and getting out soon b). in the process - you need the current info from guys going through it right now. Also, they have examples of resumes, letters, etc....

2. Start looking at the reserves and line that up first. Go to the reserve squadron now. Tell them about your interest in joining them in two years. Don't be a leech, just let them know every once in a while you are still around and still interested.

3. Find guys in the reserve squadron who fly for carriers that you are interested in. Ask them lots of questions.

4. Most importantly, get out to get out. Be committed to staying or going and make peace with that decision. That will help you when the grass starts looking greener on the other side.

 

[pilotyip]

I know this is viewed as politically incorrect by some. But in your last year go to an Air Inc conference, you will learn a lot, it is part of the collecting intelligence on the job market. I wish they had had them in 1977 when I got out. Some other good advice given above, take almost any job you are offered, it is always easier to get your next flying job when you have flying job. There is an ex-AF guy on the board here who took at job at ATA in 2002, while in simulator training at ATA, JB offered him a job, he went to JB where he is now a Captain.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

I've been out for 1.5 years now and work for a major passenger carrier.

Benefits are different that the military:

1) Health Care. Get ready to pay out of pocket for part of your insurance coverage, then pay for a deductible, then pay for the copay. You will miss the free Tricare as I do (probably). My out of pocket is about 350 a month for health insurance, I have to fill a 500 family deductible, then pay about 10-15 % copay. This does not include dental/vision/loss of licence/short term disability insurance. I would say that I probably pay about 600/month on my benefits.

Whatever. UPS benefits put tricare to shame and it costs me ten bucks per visit. I get $1 million in life insurance for less than $10/month and all the doctors I see are board certified. The mil health care system is pathetic. Get a masters done. Have a fall back plan if the airlines do not work out. I was hired by SWA and UPS but applied everywhere. I doubt I would have worked at a regional and did not apply there. Find a Reserve unit, because that will save you. Network like crazy and do not be shy about contacting folks who work where you want to. It's better to try and get as many letter of rec from guys at the airline you want to get hired by. Your timing may be good for the pax carriers, but yhou cant beat Brown or FedEx.

 

[Deuce130]

I agree with Goose17, you could type pages about this. I got out in September, two months AFTER I started training with FDX. Keep that in mind, you want at least 60 days in your leave bank so you can try to do things while on terminal leave. I was drawing O-4 pay the entire time I was in training, which was HUGE. I now pay much more for health care than I did on AD, but the care is better. Mil doctors are dedicated, professional, and try their best. The system, however, is dicked up. My civilian medical experiences have been outstanding. The downside, however, is that health care costs continue to rise. My beloved new company is trying to raise our premiums 400% over the next 4 years, to a ridiculous 450$ a month. Hopefully my beloved new union will shoot that down. But, with times the way they are, rising health care costs are going to be the norm. I can't get as good a deal on life insurance as LiL J, but they'll eventually get to that point as I work a few more years. Pay is horrible in the beginning. Not even that great after 2-4 years when compared to an O-4 on flight pay with the bonus. But, the bonus gets crappier every year, DO NOT count on it being there for you in FY08. After that, however, or after upgrade to Captain, you're set. Sometimes I second guess my decision, but I do not have any regrets. I'm still with a reserve unit, but the pressure mounts every day to quit that gig, sell my house, and move to Memphis. Even though I'd miss the bros and the mission. One other key issue - are you married? Your wife has to buy into your decision or you're screwed.

 

[pilotyip]

Deuce, just some friendly advice, you may drop out of active flying in the reserves, but do not let your good years of credit toward retirement lapse. There are a couple DAL pilots who flew with me in the reserves back in the 80's who dropped out of the reserves because they compared to thier DAL retirement and benefits to what they had to do stay in reserves and they elected to stop drilling. I am still in touch with some of the DAL, NWA and UAL pilots who elected to stick it out for their good 20 in the reserves. They all agree it was a good decision, not so much for the money, but the Tricare for life is a tremendous asset. They all had beloved unions, but times change, what is on top in 1999, is on the bottom in 2005, the same could be true for other companies.

 

[Bjammin]

Wow, Some really great advice here and I second all of it. The reserves are a HUGE deal. There is usually some active duty money lying around that you can tap if you don't get to training right away.
Benifits vary so widely, be ready for anything.
It took me 2 years from submitting appication to starting training, so get the stuff together way early.
Air inc may be somewhat of a sham, however a week after a conference I had 4 interviews, including SWA. Coincidence? I think not. Plus I leared alot about how to interview so when I got to the interviews I was mostly sucessful.