dealing with a POI.

[scubabri]

Does anyone have any experience in dealing with an unreasonable, old school POI?

Our poi refuses to let us use CTS, refuses to allow credit for training at another company, and a few other issues that he is just wrong on.

The CTS thing is a big thing. Anyone have recommendations?

sb

 

[lonelyguy]

scubabri

Does anyone have any experience in dealing with an unreasonable, old school POI?

Our poi refuses to let us use CTS, refuses to allow credit for training at another company, and a few other issues that he is just wrong on.

The CTS thing is a big thing. Anyone have recommendations?

sb

I would have to agree with your inspector on the CTS training.Anyone who has ever gone through that training has alot of time sitting in front of a computer and has learned nothing.The only advantage is it saves time and money for the company on the training of there pilots.I would recommend having a training officer do the required training for your operation.

 

[Rick1128]

First of all become very familar with FAA Order 8400.10. When you correspond with the POI always reference the section of the 8400.10 down to the sub-paragraph , if necessary. Always communicate with him in writing. If you do communicate verbally, always follow up with a note to him confirming the conversation. Always, but ALWAYS, keep 'Memos for Record'. Preferably type written in some form. Signed and dated. It is also a good idea to hand write personal notes to yourself about the meeting on this memo. Your feeliongs, thoughts, etc.

Have you asked him what his problems are with your requests? They might be quite valid. Then ask him how he suggests you accomplish the required items and how to use these materials. Sometimes they can be helpful. Sometimes they can be just d---heads.

A couple more questions. First how long has this guy been with the FAA and as a POI? Are you a fairly new operation? Have you expanded a great deal recently?

Many of the items are POI optional. If the new pilot's training was in house, the POI's generally will not accept it. Exceptions are if both companies are using the same computer based training program or Flight Safety from the same approved facilities.

One note on the CTS. It can not be the complete training program. As the program is not complete enough to meet the 135 training requirements in its entirity. So you would still a day or two of ground training.

If you still are having problems, get your ducks lined up, know what the real status of your POI is and request a meeting with his supervisor to discuss your concerns and issues. But you will need to have all the facts together. Also remember that supervisors are generally promoted to the level of their incompentence or to put them in a position where they can't do much damage. A last resort would be to request a new POI.

Good luck.

 

[mike1mc]

Rick1128 said everything I would. I can emphasize the 8400.10. It is a welath of information and is the POI bible. The CTS and accepted training issues are getting handed down from HQ. Many POIs won't accept training unless training was completed at the same facility (FSI, Simuflite). Online training is coming around, but the FAA just isn't satisfied yet. Ask CTS for documentation that others have approval using the program. Rick is also correct in sying that it can't be your full program. Still need to cover Company specific items.

 

[Peanut gallery]

POI's

Dealing with any POI can be a challenge at times. If you disagree with his/her viewpoint request the source of their guidance on that subject. Their opinions need to be respected but actions can only be sustained with guidance in the written form. It is always easier to develop a relationship that moves forward with your POI where you make a request and qoute the actual guidance that permits the activity. Remember he/she is protecting their job and hopefully trying to do the right thing. Make it easy for them to understand your viewpoint and always have a solution that can be quoted as a win/win situation from the inspectors viewpoint.

 

[scubabri]

does anyone know where I can get a full PDF version of the 8400.10? The FAA has it broken up on their web page.

Also, where can I get a PDF copy of the FAR/AIM?

sb

 

[scubabri]

It seems that the 8400.10 is "guidance" and "direction" that there are no hard and fast rules that a POI must adhear to in a lot of situations. Training curriculums seem to be one of those areas.

Basically is seems that the POI is a little dictator and that he/she can make stuff up as they go. I guess getting stuff in writing is the only way to deal with them.

sb

 

[sa227Pilot]

It seems that the 8400.10 is "guidance" and "direction" that there are no hard and fast rules that a POI must adhear to in a lot of situations. Training curriculums seem to be one of those areas.

Basically is seems that the POI is a little dictator and that he/she can make stuff up as they go. I guess getting stuff in writing is the only way to deal with them.

sb

Verbal Agreements are worth the paper they are written on.

 

[myrealnameis]

Does anyone have any experience in dealing with an unreasonable, old school POI?

Our poi refuses to let us use CTS, refuses to allow credit for training at another company, and a few other issues that he is just wrong on.

The CTS thing is a big thing. Anyone have recommendations?

sb

Buy him a bottle of 12 yr old Scotch

 

[Otter]

FAA Handboks are guidance. However, trying to have the argument with a inspector that it is not rule willl not get you anywhere. The handbooks tell them how to complete their job. Thus unless you submit in a fashion that lines up with the handbook and they can see the way to the next step, you will get nowhere.

Down side is very simple items can be a real death march when the guidance in followed to the letter. The certification process, adding of new aircraft or privileges to a certificate holder (especially those with validation testing) or initial issuance to a applicant certificate is the slowest and most frustrating regarding the handbooks.

Upside, if you submit in accordance with the rule and guidance, they really cant say no....unless you have acted like a tool, and now they dont like you, then they will have to give it to eventually, but they can make sure the delay is murder.

 

[Rick1128]

FAA Handboks are guidance. However, trying to have the argument with a inspector that it is not rule willl not get you anywhere. The handbooks tell them how to complete their job. Thus unless you submit in a fashion that lines up with the handbook and they can see the way to the next step, you will get nowhere.

Down side is very simple items can be a real death march when the guidance in followed to the letter. The certification process, adding of new aircraft or privileges to a certificate holder (especially those with validation testing) or initial issuance to a applicant certificate is the slowest and most frustrating regarding the handbooks.

Upside, if you submit in accordance with the rule and guidance, they really cant say no....unless you have acted like a tool, and now they dont like you, then they will have to give it to eventually, but they can make sure the delay is murder.

Unfortunately just about each item in the quidance has an out. It allows the POI to use his judgement. It is most likely due to the instruction they get from the FAA Academy. The original intention of the wording was to allow the POI to deal with situations that were well outside the norm. But they are using them to fulfill their own personal ideas and predgeses(sp).

 

[Rick1128]

does anyone know where I can get a full PDF version of the 8400.10? The FAA has it broken up on their web page.

Also, where can I get a PDF copy of the FAR/AIM?

sb

You do not want that! Back when I had to keep the 8400.10 in paper, it FILLED two 4 inch ring binders. Plus I had to keep it current. I have enough to keep current without that. Using the FAA website, the FAA keeps it current.

Enough said.

 

[mavrck]

good hints guys.

Only advice i want to add to that is this. You might win the battle on this, but the battle might cause a war you will end up losing. With your situation in mind, if you feel that strongly on this issue.. persue it. But keep in mind, you might cause a whole lot more of watching eyes on you that you really didn't intend to.

 

[Publishers]

First, take the time to find out what other operators in your area are using CTS training. Secondly, use the information from the above and make writing your friend. Thirdly, take the time to get to know your POI, his supervisors, and try and get some other FAA friends to let you know if there are little pet peeves that he has so you can deal with them. Always follow the advice on writing and be specific.
My last piece of advice is the most important one. Half the time your POI or PMI is not doing what you want is that there is something else bothering them that is not stated. They may feel you do not have adequate staff to train, that you are trying to use CTS as a substitute for good training, maybe he does not feel the management is solid in training and safety issues. You have to figure out what the real problem is so you can deal with it. They will kill through lack of decision rather than decisions.

 

[Planedum]

8400.1

Just go to Google and type it in (8400.1). This is the easiest way I've found to navigate it. It is a massive amount of info, so perhaps only print off the chapter(s) you are actively addressing. You will probably only concern yourself with Volume 2. Not sure, just check it out. Good luck.