Dauntless Safelog License Expiration

[Just Jay]

Has anybody else been blindsided by Dauntless wanting to take away their logbook unless you pay again?

 

[fried chickens]

Do you know how much it cost to renew? Does logbook pro have a renewal fee or do you own that outright?

 

[colejer]

Have had mine for two or three years and have not heard anything. When did you get yours and how much do they want to keep it?

 

[SandyLab]

Do you know how much it cost to renew? Does logbook pro have a renewal fee or do you own that outright?

I've been using Logbook Pro for eight years, never a renewal fee or an upgrade fee.

 

[fried chickens]

I've been using Logbook Pro for eight years, never a renewal fee or an upgrade fee.

thanks for the info. looks like i'll be switching sometime next year.

 

[tathepilot]

stay away from Dauntless, the owner is a crook.. (first hand experience)

 

[FlyBigE]

Do you know how much it cost to renew? Does logbook pro have a renewal fee or do you own that outright?

Logbook Pro doesn't charge renewal fees. You bought it you own it. I have been using it for several years now and have never been charged anything after my initial purchase. The tech support guys are pretty good too.

 

[Just Jay]

By chance I looked at the version and licensing section of the software and it told me I had 75 days left. They want $30 for one year $50 for three years and so on. I've complained to them but the swear this has always been they're policy but I have no documentation of this. They also told me no one else has complained.

Check out the version and licensing section and see if there is an expiration date.

I don't mind having to pay for updates but don't take away what I originally paid for.

 

[colejer]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]This is what I found on safelog's website:[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Your first reaction upon hearing this topic may well be this: "why does it have to be so complicated? Why can't I just buy the software?"[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]To answer this, consider the following three potential characteristics of some software [/SIZE][/FONT]

1. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]software that would let you install it on any PC, without restriction, indefinitely. [/SIZE][/FONT]
2. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]software that would let you get all the latest updates and versions for free whenever they come out (and the software is in active development, so there are many changes to talk about) [/SIZE][/FONT]
3. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]software that would let you use it indefinitely without any time limit[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Clearly, in some sense, we'd like all three characteristics in any software we buy. However, virtually no serious software of any sort is licensed in this way, since this is unsustainable. At most, you get two out of three. For example:[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]when you buy a typical Microsoft product, such as a copy of Microsoft Windows or Office, you are only allowed to install it on ONE PC. When that PC gets old, it is virtually impossible to transfer it to a new machine. Furthermore, when a new version comes out (such as the next release of Microsoft Office), they make you pay for it.[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]when you buy a game at the software store, your CD-Key lets you install it on only one PC. While the game may have a patch or two in the months immediately following its release, your purchase certainly doesn't entitle you to getting a cutting-edge version of the game every year until the end of time. Even if it is not explicitly stated, for all practical purposes this way of selling software is both time limited and computer limited.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]When deciding on a licensing scheme for Safelog, we took the following into consideration:[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Safelog is very much a living, breathing product. Existing users know that you can typically expect dozens of, often significant, upgrades in a typical year. These changes are typically not simply patches to fix minor bugs and make minor adjustments (though we do those too). Rather, we are routinely introducing significant pieces of new functionality in the software that are akin to major version upgrades in other software. We have a full-time team working on Safelog.[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Our users have shown an unquestionable desire to have access to the latest features that we have developed. We agree with this - we certainly don't want to keep people using older versions with the theory that "well, you can have that if you pay for the next version." This is impractical, too, given how often we update Safelog. We want you to have the latest and greatest features and functionality just as soon as we can create and deliver it to you.[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Our users have shown the desire to be able to want to move Safelog between PCs or to use it on multiple PCs for their own personal use without penalty. For the busy pilot on the road, this is certainly understandable.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]This is why we came to the licensing structure that we did. It is meant to provide pilots the flexibility they want, while allowing us to fund the continual upkeep and upgrade of the software. It's a fair structure, and virtually no matter how you look at it, Safelog comes out offering many more features and superior ease of use, while being considerably less expensive for you than any other serious pilot logbook software or web based solution out there, period.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Ok, so how does it work?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]When you unlock Safelog for the first time, you have purchased a time-limited license. During the time of your license (at the time of this writing, most licenses are three years) you are welcome to use the software for your own personal use. You are welcome to install it (within reason) on more than one PC, including, for example, if you get a new PC. You are even welcome to use it (again, as long as its for your own personal use) on more than one PC at a time, such as on your home and work PC. Furthermore, you can always get access to the latest available versions, free.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]When your license period expires, you are encouraged to extend this by buying a license extension. License extensions are available in a number of years, where if you purchase longer terms, the price is cheaper. If you don't extend your license, the software will basically revert to a locked state: you can still VIEW your logbook data in the main view mode, but most other functionality will be restricted. Don't expect to be able to do very much at all with the software while it is in this 'reverted to locked' state. Please also understand that without exception, when your license period is over, it is OVER. Even if you need to make a small change, you will need to purchase a license extension. Sorry to be so direct in this, but we think it's most fair to all of our users to be consistent in this policy. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Did I agree to this at the time of purchase?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Yes, yes you did.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Just because we didn't actually actively enforce this in earlier versions of Safelog does not mean that the condition that the license was limited did not exist in previous descriptions and licensing agreements. It most certainly did. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]From the very earliest versions of Safelog (including back when it was still a somewhat small project in the previous millennium), Safelog's web page noted that while there were no immediate plans to charge for upgrades, we withheld the right to do this in the future. For not less than the previous four years (as of the time of this writing in April, 2007), the web pages (and later, including the terms of sale at checkout) have specified that the license was for a period of three years. In other words,[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]If you purchased more than four years ago, you were both told of the potential for this policy at the time of purchase and you have, in effect, enjoyed access to Safelog for longer than the standard term. Many of you have even doubled this length of time on your license and have been the beneficiaries of a continuous stream of upgrades and improvements. [/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]If you purchased less than four years ago, you have been explicitly told of the provisions of the license[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]I'd like to make a complaint.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Alas, not all users are so understanding. We recognize this, and as such our helpdesk team has their flak jackets on, so to speak, to help that small percentage of users who will feel wronged by our present enforcement of our long stated policy. Look, we understand that nobody likes to pay money. However, the reality of the situation is that not only were the license terms stated at the time of purchase, but we have up to this date given many or most of you far more in terms of license period than we originally promised. We understand that this has led to a complacency of sorts where some of you may have forgotten about the terms of sale and have simply come to expect free and unlimited additional usage and upgrades indefinitely and some of you may have confused in your minds the terms of use of our GroundSchool or other products where there is indeed a lifetime personal use license granted. As such, our helpdesk staff will read and consider any comment you'd like to (politely) make, though in all likelihood you will be directed back to this page for answers, as, unless you raise a fundamentally new issue, it is our position that the issues are addressed here. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Ultimately, the path we chose was the one favored by most pilots. At the end of the day, you are welcome to export your flight data from Safelog and transition into some other product if you are truly unhappy. We hope you don't leave us, but we do ask for your understanding that we have at all times tried our best to deal fairly with the situation and we hope that any initial frustration that you may feel because of this new license scheme will subside and you will come to recognize that all we want is a fair deal for you, us, and all of our current and future users. [/SIZE][/FONT]

You can extend the license period for your use of Safelog at any time by visiting our Safelog License Extension Page.

 

[Just Jay]

Yes I have read that BUT, what I recall is that when I bought the software there MAY be charges for updates in the future. I would have not bought the product if I knew I was going to have to pay every three years to keep using it whatever the version or updates.

In the two reciepts I have there is no mention of such a limitation.

Does anyone else have this problem?

 

[fried chickens]

I got it bout 2 yrs ago and don't remember it saying anything bout renewal because I wouldn't have bought then if that's the case. I only found out about it when I recommended safelog to a friend and he saw the note about renewal fee. $50 for three more years is BS. It's like a freaking anti-virus renewal.

 

[Just Jay]

From the very earliest versions of Safelog (including back when it was still a somewhat small project in the previous millennium), Safelog's web page noted that while there were no immediate plans to charge for upgrades, we withheld the right to do this in the future.

Never mind that they want the right to enforce this whenever they want, the above quote specifically states "for upgrades," not to keep using ANY version.:uzi: :crying:

 

[FlyBigE]

I just got done talking to a tech for Logbook Pro and they can import your Safelog data into LBP.

 

[Just Jay]

I got it bout 2 yrs ago and don't remember it saying anything bout renewal because I wouldn't have bought then if that's the case. I only found out about it when I recommended safelog to a friend and he saw the note about renewal fee. $50 for three more years is BS. It's like a freaking anti-virus renewal.

ME TOO

 

[tathepilot]

do yourself a favor, dont EVER use Dauntless they are not worth your time... go with a big company that actually has customer service, not someone sitting behind a computer in Ukraine writing programs..

 

[Dr Pepper]

I just got done talking to a tech for Logbook Pro and they can import your Safelog data into LBP.

Do you have a number or e-mail of said tech? Do we just e-mail our saved file?

 

[FlyBigE]

Do you have a number or e-mail of said tech? Do we just e-mail our saved file?

Dr. Pepper, contact their help desk at http://helpdesk.nc-software.com and their 24/7 support team will gladly assist you.

 

[Just Jay]

Is there anyone else who has heard about this or had this happen to them?

Is there anyone who knew about this when they bought this electronic logbook and when did you buy it??

 

[Bernoulli]

Safelog has a nice format, is super user friendly and looks great on the screen... but the printing options are ridiculous. If this software could print with more flexability then it would be a great program...but there is no flexibility with moving cells around and absolutely no way to squeeze in any remarks. You can't even change the size of the font so as to squeeze in more for the remarks. One size font is all you get. I was absolutely amazed at how limited this software is when it comes to printing it out. The software is so user freindly and seems all well and good until you try to print it out....which is usually after you have spent countless hours inputing all your flight hours. Their help desk response is also a total joke...they say that there are not really any complaints but if you have a problem with the print out try exporting it into Excell so you can print it out the way you want. Yeah right...I tried that too and the export did not even include my remarks...What a joke! No wonder on their free demo they don't allow you to print. Don't be fooled...until this company deals with flexible print options this software is only going to waste your time. I'm writing this not to diss the company, but for two reasons: 1. to save any future pilots the frustration and $$$ and 2. hopefully to get Dauntless' attention that they need to deal with this limitation and fix it. If this software could print with more flexability then it would be a great program. Lets hope they step up.