Darn it's quiet? Any idea why?

[English]

There is a common misconception that in the higher altitudes, it's too cold for icing.


Not so.



Go read the NTSB safety recommendation A-04-34.

There was an MD-82 on June 2, 2002, at FL330, that experienced a loss of power on both engines due to high altitude ice crystals adhering to the engine inlet pressure probes. Just like on the Air Florida crash, but at 33,000 feet. They were IMC (visible moisture, less than 6 degrees C) and did not use engine anti-ice. On descent they were able to restart at 17,000.

 

[PHX767]

Well, at FL410 it is just going to be ice crystals, not conducive to icing.

A big BANG when the power is pulled back, sounds like a compressor stall. I've had a number of minor compressor stalls in different planes, and the higher the altitude the easier it is to get one. I've not experienced one in the Beechjet, but then I pull the power back reaaalllly slowly when at high altitude. The combination of axial and centrifigual (sp?) compressors seems fairly resilient.

The fuel contamination theory is lame. The Beechjet feeds the fuselage tank directly to the mains automatically. Any contamination would be diluted. And both engines at the same time? Very hard to nail down. Will have to look at the crew testimony.

 

[FracCapt]

There is a common misconception that in the higher altitudes, it's too cold for icing.


Not so.

They were IMC (visible moisture, less than 6 degrees C) and did not use engine anti-ice. On descent they were able to restart at 17,000.

Anybody that associates strictly altitude with potential to pick up ice is an idiot. Notice I stated that above FL350 it was likely -30C or colder? I have NEVER seen it warmer than -20TAT at that altitude. I never said that it was too cold based on the altitude....I said it was likely too cold based on....THE TEMPERATURE! What a novel concept.

If you're IMC and the temp is -6C, and you DON'T have anti ice on....you're an idiot.

 

[banned username 2]

Anybody that associates strictly altitude with potential to pick up ice is an idiot. Notice I stated that above FL350 it was likely -30C or colder? I have NEVER seen it warmer than -20TAT at that altitude. I never said that it was too cold based on the altitude....I said it was likely too cold based on....THE TEMPERATURE! What a novel concept.

If you're IMC and the temp is -6C, and you DON'T have anti ice on....you're an idiot.

I have been rained on at FL350... very bizaar weather day... was about 10 years ago...

 

[Jetsi]

Ice Ice Baby

Hey Guys and Gals,

The ice theory would make the most sense. And before you say it can't happen, let me get my 2 cents worth.

I was at 410 going from DAL to CHS on my Captain upgrade ride. Cruising at .76 in IMC dodging storms over AL, RAT -42 SAT -60, we iced up all the pitot tubes and static ports, leaving me with an attitude indicator and a questionable AOA gauge. Got everything back descending through 8,000 feet. It has happened to at least 3 other crews that I know of.

All of the anti-ice was turned on, including the engine heat.

Lovin life,

Jetsi

 

[JetCapt69]

Good Theory

The chance of both systems becoming blocked at the same time is slim to none, even if they did not have adequate Prist in the fuel. I don't think you're even close with this theory. As I said, though, I will refrain from speculating publicly. BTW, they were IMC.

I have good information that the NTSB will conclude that this beechjet lost both engines due to inadequate amounts of PRIST in the fuel as I previously theorized. This aircraft bought a large amount of fuel, requested prist, but did not receive it because of an error by line service. The fuel turned to gel (froze) after cruising at a high altitude for a long period of time close to the tops of the clouds at either FL410 or FL430 (can't remember which). The crew was issued a descent clearance, reduced power to descent (thus reducing fuel pressure) and we know the rest of the story.

Kudos again to the crew. Watch for the report to be issued soon.

 

[longrangekiller]

JetCapt69: you are correct. Not enough prist over time or NO prist at the last fuel stop. That is the fact of the matter.

Now, we all know the Beechjet / 400XP MUST have prist. Was prist not availalble or not ordered??? Did the captain really do his job or was it a logistics issue? Guess we will never know. I mean honestly, is the captain gonna fess up and say he failed to order and follow up: NOT!!!

 

[Majik]

Start by looking at the fuel ticket/charge and see if prist was requested and paid for.

 

[JetCapt69]

Snoop Dogg

The NTSB does a very thorough investigation as we all know. They interviewed the fueler at the crews last stop. PRIST was ordered, the prist mixer was selected at the truck, but NO PRIST was in the truck (it ran out during fueling or was empty before).

The crew should be commended. They followed every procedure as required by the checklist and company SOP's (per the CVR). They handled the emergency and landed uneventfully.

 

[fogrunner]

Hopefully this crew will be recognized by management for a job well done.

Having seen the PM for the CIII get a commendation for being on the company picnic committee, it is the least they could do....

 

[Dep676]

Having seen the PM for the CIII get a commendation for being on the company picnic committee, it is the least they could do....

You know why he got a commendation don't you. If you have been around a while you will know why.

 

[fogrunner]

I spent nearly 4 yrs in the III program. It is a shame the people who deserve the recognition don't get it...