Darn it's quiet? Any idea why?

[Diesel]

NTSB Investigating Flight Options Beechjet Flameout
A Flight Options Beechjet 400A, believed to be headed to a Miami-area airport with several passengers aboard, experienced a dual-engine flameout over the Gulf of Mexico on July 12. According to the FAA, the incident occurred while the aircraft was at altitude, and the crew was able to restart one engine after gliding to a lower altitude. The crew declared an emergency and diverted to Sarasota, Fla., where the aircraft landed safely. Initial examination of the Pratt & Whitney Canada JT15D-5 turbofans revealed no mechanical anomalies, according to the NTSB. The Safety Board is still analyzing fuel samples taken from both the Beechjet and the last location where the aircraft uploaded fuel before the incident. An FAA spokesman told AIN Alerts that the Beechjet was being operated under Part 135 air-taxi rules, but Flight Options disputed this point. Flight Options further said that the passengers aboard the aircraft continued on to their destination, but did not say by what mode. Raytheon Aircraft and Pratt & Whitney Canada declined comment, citing the ongoing NTSB investigation.

 

[JetCapt69]

Sad

It's quiet because your GROUNDED Diesel. I don't think it is appropriate to make light of what could have become a serious situation for all on board, not to mention people in the path of this jet.

Having lost an engine in flight before, I think it is a testiment to the crew who landed this aircraft safely.

Good job guys/gals.

 

[FracCapt]

Now, you said both pilots are back flying. Are they both still PICs? If so, great news.

As far as I'm concerned, they both need to be on administrative leave(paid) until the reason for the flameout is determined. I have a good idea, but that would be pure speculation on my part, and it wouldn't be positive for the crew. Once the reason is determined(by an OFFICIAL source, not the company), THEN they should be dealt with accordingly.

Don't believe anything you read on that message board you quoted. It's in no way tied to the company - it's just run by guys that are pushing the union here. It's 100% anonymous. Funny thing is those guys never post the same opinion on places like Flightinfo or the company message board, where at least some sort of registration is required.

 

[Turbinehead]

? on the Beechnut Jet fuel system

I have a good idea, but that would be pure speculation on my part, and it wouldn't be positive for the crew. Once the reason is determined(by an OFFICIAL source, not the company), THEN they should be dealt with accordingly.

What is your "good idea" on what might have happened?

Does that jet have a requirement to transfer fuel from the trunk to the wings manually to keep the fires burnin and the wheels turnin? Or, does fuel transfer happen automatically?

Turb.

 

[FracCapt]

What is your "good idea" on what might have happened?

I'm not going to speculate publicly.

Does that jet have a requirement to transfer fuel from the trunk to the wings manually to keep the fires burnin and the wheels turnin? Or, does fuel transfer happen automatically?

Fuel automatically transfers. There are two electric boost pumps that pump from the trunk to the wings. They are on whenever the system detects fuel in the trunk, so any fuel burned out of the wings is replaced by fuel from the trunk until it is empty.

 

[LJDRVR]

Instead of focusing on whether or not the crew made a mistake, or whether or not one thinks there should be a union at FLOPS, let's not loose sight of the big picture here:

Dual engine flameouts do not "just happen", there is something here for all of us to learn about aviation.

Having said that, nobody was injured or killed, no metal got bent, so without publicly naming either pilot, somebody in the know should feel free to publicly speculate. I for one, would like to know what happened. (sounds like a WX avoidance issue to me.) Pilots are too concerned about pretending their mistakes never actually occured. We are rarely honest with ourselves, and when something like this happens, the time honored tradition of "covering one's a$$" unfortunately takes place instead of sharing with our peers so that others can learn from our screw-ups.

So, what happened? We're all human here.

 

[JetCapt69]

Speculation

I will speculate, but first, I will say I have no knowledge of the truth here, but here it goes.

I understand (from rumor of course) that the beechjet was at a high altitude, FL410. I also heard that the beechjet (like many small jets) does not have a fuel heater, which, would require a little fuel additive we all refer to as PRIST.

Now, suppose that the crew did not add PRIST to their fuel. I am not sure how long the flight was or how long it takes for fuel to freeze, but it sure seems like a possible scenerio considering the aircraft was (rumor) in clear air. This would certainly cause both engines to flame out, but what is the likelihood or odds of BOTH engines freezing and failing at the same time?? I am not a statistician, so I don't know.

Any rate, they followed the appropriate procedures to restart one engine and save the aircraft and many lives. Aviation regulations thrive on human error, incidents and accidents.

We will all learn from this once the findings are published. At least no one had to enter the record books in a pine box.

Fly safe!

 

[English]

The Prist theory was my first thought as well. If this is what happened, it's not the first time.

 

[LJDRVR]

The prist theory is interesting. The fuel in the fuselage tank should be sufficiently warm to precluse this from happening. When I used to conduct high altitude overwater OPS in Learjets, I always left a little bit in the back in case I had an icing problem.

I've never flown a Beechjet, but I would imagine there's some sort of warning that you're about to have a problem. (On the Learjets it's the amber "FUEL FILTER" annunciator.) Any of you Beechjet folks care to comment on any fuel additive issues on the 400?

 

[FracCapt]

Now, suppose that the crew did not add PRIST to their fuel. I am not sure how long the flight was or how long it takes for fuel to freeze, but it sure seems like a possible scenerio considering the aircraft was (rumor) in clear air. This would certainly cause both engines to flame out, but what is the likelihood or odds of BOTH engines freezing and failing at the same time?? I am not a statistician, so I don't know.

The chance of both systems becoming blocked at the same time is slim to none, even if they did not have adequate Prist in the fuel. I don't think you're even close with this theory. As I said, though, I will refrain from speculating publicly. BTW, they were IMC.

The NTSB preliminary report:

http://www2.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040804X01143&key=1