Dal

[skiutah]

I have heard from multiple DAL pilots including a CP, they are going to start hiring again some say in the next 2 to 3 months!

If so when do you think they will open the application process? And How?

What do you think the upgrade time will be?

Where do you think the majority of the new hires will go?

 

[General Lee]

I have heard from multiple DAL pilots including a CP, they are going to start hiring again some say in the next 2 to 3 months!

If so when do you think they will open the application process? And How?

What do you think the upgrade time will be?

Where do you think the majority of the new hires will go?

Could be true. They have called most of the furloughs for recall and a lot have bypassed. When they get to TBKane, and he comes back or stays out, then they will have to hire if they still need pilots. Rumor is 100 or more pilots hired in the Spring for a Summer start. Probably start on MD88 in NYC or ATL. Upgrade time is still 10 years or more until we get more aircraft. The INTL expansion has created and will create more movement due to the longer trips and more crews needed. New trips for the 777 (ATL-ICN (Seoul), ATL-DXB (Dubai) and JFK-BOM have necessitated more 777 upgrades due to the manning--2 Captains and 2 FOs per leg. 777 upgrades do cause a large ripple in movement upward, and rumor has it we may be getting 10-13 more from a lessor in the next 4 years. We will be getting 2 more for sure in 2008, in time for the Beijing Olympics. We also will be getting 10 757s from AA (ex TWA 757ERs) starting next June, (with a rumor for an additional 7) but will start service in early FALL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

777 upgrades do cause a large ripple in movement upward, and rumor has it we may be getting 10-13 more from a lessor in the next 4 years. We will be getting 2 more for sure in 2008, in time for the Beijing Olympics.

Lot's of 777 rumors. Firm orders stand at 2 in 08, 2 in 09 and 1 in 2010.

 

[FDJ2]

My prediction, by the end of January all furloughed DAL pilots will have been offered recall. New hires by next summer. New hire classes will go to the MD88 and B737-800. Beyond that my crystal ball gets murky.

 

[lookin4better]

Do you think they will use airlineapps.com?

What were the mins in the later 90s? Does knowing anyone at DAL help?

Thanks

 

[felixf16]

I have heard from multiple DAL pilots including a CP, they are going to start hiring again some say in the next 2 to 3 months!

Dude, you can have my old 73N right seat. I bailed from DAL last year (after 6+ years at DAL and 21 years in the biz) for law school and couldn't be more happy with my decision to have done so.

Personally, I was miserable at DAL and am really glad to have moved on to something positive. I know that many of my contemporaries are looking for an opportunity to leave as well.

As to applying for a job with DAL, I'd advise you only to be very careful what you wish for. You really might want to talk with some of the curent F/Os before you decide that DAL would be a good place for you to go. Or PM me.

At any rate, best of luck to you.

Felix

 

[legalalien]

Dude, you can have my old 73N right seat. I bailed from DAL last year (after 6+ years at DAL and 21 years in the biz) for law school and couldn't be more happy with my decision to have done so.

Personally, I was miserable at DAL and am really glad to have moved on to something positive. I know that many of my contemporaries are looking for an opportunity to leave as well.

As to applying for a job with DAL, I'd advise you only to be very careful what you wish for. You really might want to talk with some of the curent F/Os before you decide that DAL would be a good place for you to go. Or PM me.

At any rate, best of luck to you.

Felix

What was it that made you so miserable at DAL? I am sure that it would be better than any of the thousands of jobs created at the Regionals in the last few years!

 

[legalalien]

Could be true. They have called most of the furloughs for recall and a lot have bypassed. When they get to TBKane, and he comes back or stays out, then they will have to hire if they still need pilots. Rumor is 100 or more pilots hired in the Spring for a Summer start. Probably start on MD88 in NYC or ATL. Upgrade time is still 10 years or more until we get more aircraft. The INTL expansion has created and will create more movement due to the longer trips and more crews needed. New trips for the 777 (ATL-ICN (Seoul), ATL-DXB (Dubai) and JFK-BOM have necessitated more 777 upgrades due to the manning--2 Captains and 2 FOs per leg. 777 upgrades do cause a large ripple in movement upward, and rumor has it we may be getting 10-13 more from a lessor in the next 4 years. We will be getting 2 more for sure in 2008, in time for the Beijing Olympics. We also will be getting 10 757s from AA (ex TWA 757ERs) starting next June, (with a rumor for an additional 7) but will start service in early FALL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

When they get to TBKane do they not then have to go back in inverse seniority to see if any of those who bypassed then come back? I would have thought that some of those would have bypassed so that they could avoid reserve.

How many pilots are on the DAL seniority list now?

 

[Patriot328]

Do you think they will use airlineapps.com?

What were the mins in the later 90s? Does knowing anyone at DAL help?

Thanks

Look who runs Airlineapps.. I almost guaruntee they'll use it at DAL.

 

[General Lee]

When they get to TBKane do they not then have to go back in inverse seniority to see if any of those who bypassed then come back? I would have thought that some of those would have bypassed so that they could avoid reserve.

How many pilots are on the DAL seniority list now?

I believe after they have offered a chance to come back to everyone, they can start to hire, and any one of those furloughed pilots that did bypass can come back any time there is a class offered. As far as people who are happy and those who aren't, Delta definitely took a battering during BK. This is a process I would not wish on anyone. Morale does go down, and pay cuts are hard to face. But, this is a cycle and hopefully better times are ahead. The pay isn't as great as it used to be, but it is not bad, and it will likely go up. Going to the right seat of an MD88 isn't too bad, (it beats going to the 727FE seat like I did way back when) and the bases aren't too bad at all. And, there are about 6000 pilots on the seniority list.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

Some people have wanted to work for DL since they were kids.

Is there an anti-nepotism clause there? I hope the first few classes won't be 20-somethings from Gulfstream.

 

[dtfl]

I have heard from multiple DAL pilots including a CP, they are going to start hiring again some say in the next 2 to 3 months!

If so when do you think they will open the application process? And How?

What do you think the upgrade time will be?

Where do you think the majority of the new hires will go?

Are you an IP at the LRF skool house? Be nice to me in Feb and we can talk

 

[dtfl]

I believe after they have offered a chance to come back to everyone, they can start to hire, and any one of those furloughed pilots that did bypass can come back any time there is a class offered. As far as people who are happy and those who aren't, Delta definitely took a battering during BK. This is a process I would not wish on anyone. Morale does go down, and pay cuts are hard to face. But, this is a cycle and hopefully better times are ahead. The pay isn't as great as it used to be, but it is not bad, and it will likely go up. Going to the right seat of an MD88 isn't too bad, (it beats going to the 727FE seat like I did way back when) and the bases aren't too bad at all. And, there are about 6000 pilots on the seniority list.

Bye Bye--General Lee

So far they passed me (Mar 01) and are in the April or May classes for recall - only a few more to get to TKane. They still have a lot of slots to fill for the 65 slots. Lots of folks took mil leave or bypassed...some others are at SWA/FedEx/realtors/etc.
Take back your statement about the 72 FE seat! That ruled! I got more backrubs, good meals, Phone #s, from the young hotties from MCO and BOS (before they were furloughed) and I got great bids....flew the -130 in my spare time in the reserves...the SO seat wasnt bad at all

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Did DAL have a SIM ride for applicants?

 

[General Lee]

No, no sim ride back in 2001 when they stopped. There was some testing and a psych eval, but as long as you didn't say you shoot at guys who honk at you, it was a pass. Now, back when I did it, it was a lot tougher. We had NASA style coordination testing, harder tests, etc. And, I even passed the psych test! Amazing.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Gorilla]

General Lee, I like your upbeat style, but I've got to say the Delta interview back ~15 years ago was one of the weirdest (and I must say unpleasant) experiences of my career. Maybe it's changed, but we were treated like an odd combination of cattle and exotic insect to be studied. The psych guy was bizarre. The questions were worded strangely. I didn't feel very welcome there.

Good luck Delta guys, I hope it works out well. Just keep an eye on your retirement, as in, you'd better have your own on the side. I feel really bad for the Delta retirees who just lost it all.

 

[densoo]

I interviewed in the late 90s and was shot down with prejudice.

Maybe it was the recommendation letters--walk on water letters, one from each of five different checkairman who had flown with me and signed an eval for each plane I had flown, and were now Delta pilots.

Maybe it Plato Rhynes' personal note on my resume.

Likely it was just me.

Either way, there was certainly a desire to put me in my place.

My interview was a good cop, bad cop routine with one HR guy asking the usual questions you can prepare for, the other one a retired captain essentially barking at me like a drill instructor "what would you do, what would you do!" I guess this was meant to replace the stress of a sim to see how you would respond under pressure.

The guy in the room next to me recognized the interviewer from a past life and it was just a good ol' boy bull session with a lot of laughing and backslapping. That's what you're hoping for.

Finally, there was a secret code that would tell you if you passed the interview or not. If you passed, one of the interviewers would come out to the waiting room to escort you out of the (secure) building saying thanks for your time. If you failed, a lowly secretary came out and performed the same service.

The guy in the room next to me got the former, I got the latter.

First impressions are important, the inteview manuals say, but this goes for the company as well. How they conduct their interviews says alot about their company and what the culture is like. (Southwest, for example, has an extremely thorough interview process, but from what I've heard interviews are relaxed and meaningful, and you can tell people enjoy being there).

While I knew Delta was (is) a top notch airline, the airline that I and everyone I knew wanted to fly for, I had had quite enough of the autocratic drill instructor culture in my previous job and I wasn't fond of these types of games. I wanted to get far away from this and I could only imagine what flying the line would be like if this was the culture.

When I got home that night I wrote a polite letter saying thanks for the interview, but "I have chosen not to pursue a career with Delta at this time." Six weeks later I got the standard "thanks for playing" form letter anyway.

 

[Hagar17]

General:

Can you take me in to see Plato (again)?

Hag

 

[snow-back]

Dude, you can have my old 73N right seat. I bailed from DAL last year (after 6+ years at DAL and 21 years in the biz) for law school and couldn't be more happy with my decision to have done so.

Personally, I was miserable at DAL and am really glad to have moved on to something positive. I know that many of my contemporaries are looking for an opportunity to leave as well.

As to applying for a job with DAL, I'd advise you only to be very careful what you wish for. You really might want to talk with some of the curent F/Os before you decide that DAL would be a good place for you to go. Or PM me.

At any rate, best of luck to you.

Felix

I kind of agree Felix. I wasn't completely miserable, but I really couldn't imagine doing that job for 20 more years. I had 9+ years with the last 5 on the 757/767. The paycuts were almost a blessing as it made the decision to leave much easier to justify. It would have been irresponsible to leave a 160K/yr job for a 100K/yr job.

As Felix said, I caution you on getting what you want. Better than Mesa and Trans States...definitely, but there are much better aviation jobs and non-aviation careers out there. In the long run, it's much better to want what you have than the other way around.

Good luck.

 

[TheGuat]

Is Playdoh Rine still going to be doing interviews?

 

[tbkane]

Plato Rhyne is not there anymore. His son is but is not in the hiring department. As far as the interview process it was not that bad except for meeting with the psychologist on day two. That was wierd. If you can pat your belly and rub your head it is not bad. Some cognative testing and a lot of psych evals with a few dexterity tests thrown in. The interview for me was very laid back. Kind of a good old boy interview.

As far as hiring I am still going to say whoa. They have not announced any hiring department. I have not gotten a letter yet and I will not be back with this list of call backs. It will be (in my opinion only) late spring before we see the first new hire class. The process will probably be all different now than it was five plus years ago so discussing how it was is pretty much useless. Will be interesting to see if we will hire so many military as before as there are not as many coming out.

Felix I am sorry you didn't enjoy Delta. For me I have two tours (of pain) through the regionals, 135 charter, and fractional. Delta far and away is the best job I have had. (if only for three months) That being said I am still a little concerned that being junior at Delta for a very long time can come back and haunt me again. I don't want to be furloughed again. For those interested in Delta just beware that you will be junior for at least five years as retirements are all but nonexistent, and a furlough usually hits the bottom 10% of the seniority list where we will all be for five plus more years.

TK+0

 

[General Lee]

My interview experience was interesting, but not terrible. A lot of the psych stuff was toned down around 2000 apparently, and the NASA stuff left the process in 98 I believe. The medical was strict I thought, with a hearing test that was being given while people were talking right outside the booth. I banged on the window to tell them to be quiet. (in a nice way) I think they have had a lot of time to refine the process, and I don't think it will be as bad. Plato Rhyne is probably not going to do it, but I haven't heard from him in a long time, and TBKANE is correct, he has a son flying at DL. From what I hear there is a newhire coordinator already being briefed, but all I have heard is that we may start in the Spring, as soon as TBKANE says yes or no to coming back.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Where are you woring at now TBKANE? You going back?

 

[800Dog]

I interviewed in the late 90s and was shot down with prejudice.

Maybe it was the recommendation letters--walk on water letters, one from each of five different checkairman who had flown with me and signed an eval for each plane I had flown, and were now Delta pilots.

Maybe it Plato Rhynes' personal note on my resume.

Likely it was just me.

Either way, there was certainly a desire to put me in my place.

My interview was a good cop, bad cop routine with one HR guy asking the usual questions you can prepare for, the other one a retired captain essentially barking at me like a drill instructor "what would you do, what would you do!" I guess this was meant to replace the stress of a sim to see how you would respond under pressure.

The guy in the room next to me recognized the interviewer from a past life and it was just a good ol' boy bull session with a lot of laughing and backslapping. That's what you're hoping for.

Finally, there was a secret code that would tell you if you passed the interview or not. If you passed, one of the interviewers would come out to the waiting room to escort you out of the (secure) building saying thanks for your time. If you failed, a lowly secretary came out and performed the same service.

The guy in the room next to me got the former, I got the latter.

First impressions are important, the inteview manuals say, but this goes for the company as well. How they conduct their interviews says alot about their company and what the culture is like. (Southwest, for example, has an extremely thorough interview process, but from what I've heard interviews are relaxed and meaningful, and you can tell people enjoy being there).

While I knew Delta was (is) a top notch airline, the airline that I and everyone I knew wanted to fly for, I had had quite enough of the autocratic drill instructor culture in my previous job and I wasn't fond of these types of games. I wanted to get far away from this and I could only imagine what flying the line would be like if this was the culture.

When I got home that night I wrote a polite letter saying thanks for the interview, but "I have chosen not to pursue a career with Delta at this time." Six weeks later I got the standard "thanks for playing" form letter anyway.

Interviewed early '99. I thought it was a very good experience. Alot of situational questions. Most of the technical stuff was handled with written tests. Psych eval. was laid back as well. No sim but, you can count on that changing as I recently flew with a captain who was very involved with the process in the late 90s. Aerodynamics for naval aviators is a good place to start for the tests. Look for hiring to begin this spring. They are having a difficult time filling the last Nov. class and word is the Dec. class will be cancelled as they cannot get enough furloughees to accept recall.

 

[felixf16]

What was it that made you so miserable at DAL? I am sure that it would be better than any of the thousands of jobs created at the Regionals in the last few years!

(I'll caveat this whole thing by saying that the flying I did at Delta consisted almost purely of domestic ops. I was a 727C, 767B, M88B, 737B and 73NB. I understand that the international side is like a different airline. I just couldn't have gotten there from where I was...)

First, I won’t even mention the detrimental effect being gone two-thirds of the time has on one’s personal life, as I believe that’s a “given” in an airline pilot’s lifestyle - not a variable.

My primary misery came as a result of spending so much time away from the alternate career efforts that needed my attention while I was on the road with DAL. Being aware of the illusory promise of stability offered by any airline, I made certain to pursue a professional life away from aviation - mainly in commercial construction management. By spending time flying for DAL, I was forfeiting many chances to improve my situation, and receiving very little from the company in exchange.

After experiencing firsthand the massive pay, benefit and QOL cuts, I simply could no longer justify spending time flying while neglecting other opportunities I saw outside of the airline business - and especially considering what little compensation and satisfaction I was deriving from my work at the airline.

Additionally, I found very little reason to be confident about the possibility of substantive improvement in the situation for DAL pilots during the seventeen years I had remaining. Very honestly, I had absolutely no desire to allow my professional future to remain in the hands of intolerably inept management.

To me, one sure sign of poor management is deflection of issues through mere restatement of policy. Those who’ve received DAL’s latest “wear your hat” memo - the company still sends me the PlaneTalk emails - will know what I’m talking about. Maybe they’d agree that I have good reason to hold a pessimistic viewpoint for the future of the DAL pilot group based upon continuing and systemically abominable corporate “leadership.” That is unless any line pilot truly believes, as the memo states, “[o]ur appearance reflects the level of professionalism we execute once we are in the cockpit.” I couldn’t imagine a more clear case of identifying an obvious symptom while completely avoiding the underlying problem. If you go to DAL, you’ll tire quickly of those who claim to be exponents for the pilot group, but by their actions prove to be servants of a most insincere and malevolent upper management.

I have no doubt that a job at DAL might possibly be better than one at a regional. But you owe it to yourself to consider that flying for any airline is only just that – a job. Flying airliners is no longer a “career.” Any expectation that a company like DAL will offer much more than a modest paycheck in exchange for your best efforts will most likely result in career-long disappointment. By joining DAL, you should be aware that you will be selling your services to a company that values only least-cost production. Neither your ability, nor your capacity to do excellent work, will be rewarded. Please realize as well that you’ll be expected to endure a revolving door of self-serving management poseurs who will astound your sensibility while they purport to govern the organization.

If you feel the need to fly something big, then by all means go and get your fill of the grind that has become the daily routine at what used to be a fine major US air carrier. As airlines go, DAL certainly won’t disappoint you if your expectations are low enough.

I do genuinely hope that you find great reward in airline flying where I could not.

Cheers,

Felix

 

[tbkane]

BJJ Freighter I am at NetJets now. I don't have an answer for that in a public forum. PM me and then we can talk.

800 dog stop spreading rumors they have plenty to fill the class. Where ever you get your info from I would stop listening. There are more on the SNRL list than spots in the next classes...

 

[800Dog]

BJJ Freighter I am at NetJets now. I don't have an answer for that in a public forum. PM me and then we can talk.

800 dog stop spreading rumors they have plenty to fill the class. Where ever you get your info from I would stop listening. There are more on the SNRL list than spots in the next classes...

Got the info off the DALPA board from a recently recalled furloughee. We shall see!

 

[GogglesPisano]

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/new...15618.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

 

[tbkane]

800 dog did you read the rest of the thread? The part from the alpa furlough coordinator? I say again they will have enough and not cancel a class. That was one furlougee's opinion nothing more.

That being said I am not so sure hiring will happen... I have not been a proponent of that. There are a lot of dynamics that will play out. Those on a PLOA will be offered call back possibly? With DAL coming out of bk, do more come off the deferred list and take a call back? MLOA's have to start expiring do some of those pilots come back. Only after those answers play out will DAL know if they need to hire. That is why the union gave the a change on the way the call backs are done so they can have more advance planning...

TK+0

 

[737 Pylt]

Dude, you can have my old 73N right seat. I bailed from DAL last year (after 6+ years at DAL and 21 years in the biz) for law school and couldn't be more happy with my decision to have done so.

Personally, I was miserable at DAL and am really glad to have moved on to something positive. I know that many of my contemporaries are looking for an opportunity to leave as well.

As to applying for a job with DAL, I'd advise you only to be very careful what you wish for. You really might want to talk with some of the curent F/Os before you decide that DAL would be a good place for you to go. Or PM me.

At any rate, best of luck to you.

Felix

Felix:
The only thing I can respond to that is "one man's trash is another man's treasure." Sure there are better places to work. Guys that work at Fed Ex and UPS can say the same, but look at work rules and pay vs. UAL or AAA! I think we still did better in bk than they did, we kept some of our work rules and still have a better payscale. Now for the folks coming on, pay will not be as good as it was, but this airline thing runs in cycles, that's why I have my plan "B" in place now. Good luck in law school, I hear its a biatch.
737
VOTED NO!