Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

DAL up sharply - Merger Talks with ALPA

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
Bingo!

The stock price is what all the hype is about. Wall Street loves merger talk, but I think in the long run, any mergers will solve very few problems. The bottom line is that the industry is still selling its product at less than cost.......

Airlines might have a profitable quarter every once in a while, but if you look at an average or 2,5,or 10 or more years, the entire industry is simply giving away its product at below cost. Competetion is good-giving away what you produce is charity, and no one ever got rich from that.
 
Jmoney said:
The stock price is what all the hype is about. Wall Street loves merger talk, but I think in the long run, any mergers will solve very few problems. The bottom line is that the industry is still selling its product at less than cost.......

Airlines might have a profitable quarter every once in a while, but if you look at an average or 2,5,or 10 or more years, the entire industry is simply giving away its product at below cost. Competetion is good-giving away what you produce is charity, and no one ever got rich from that.
Click to expand...

Jmoney,

Even I could have figured this one out.
 
michael707767 said:
NWAs right to block a CAL merger goes away if NWA enters into it's own merger.
Click to expand...

I've seen that written in an article before, but been told by reliable NWA folks that this is false. They say NWA does not lose its right to block a CAL merger unless NWA gives up or sells these rights. I'm not sure where the truth lies, but can you back up this statement?

Schwanker
 
I thought NWA basically had first right of refusal on a CAL merger. Is there more to it than that?
 
Hi!

Today, analysts are saying DAL/NWA and UAL/CAL soon.

cliff
GRB
 
I'm not saying a merger won't happen, BUT I would be very surprised to see both NWA/DAL and CAL/UAL.

This chatter is more about stock price manipulation than reality - reference the heavy involvment of Pardus capital (a hedge fund) in pushing a DAL/UAL combo. Conveniently, they hold large stakes in both companies and everytime the "chatter" hits the airwaves, the stocks move up/down multiple % points at a time.

You are seeing investor speculation - that may make for a good stock trade as airline stocks are extremely oversold. Assuming further mergers by large players, though, is mental masturbation at best. I would think you'd see a SWA/Airtran, NWA/Frontier, JB/Spirit type deal before you'd see a legacy/legacy deal.

AWA/US Airways was a very unique situation where US Airways was down and out to the point where any deal was better than liquidation. The route structures and fleet types were complimentary. It had great potential, but the culture differences were largely dismissed and/or mismanaged, which has proven to be a huge mistake and may possibly hamstring any future success for years to come.

Any other combo of legacies will have major overlap at some point in the route maps as well as serious fleet commonality issues. Wall street pressure is not enough to make this happen - unless we see a major player back in BK or close to it, it's not going to happen. If we do enter a prolonged economic downturn, this scenario might develop, but that's not anytime soon with the reactive speed airlines operate at.

A large reason people are even considering these deals is the strength of international travel, but as a weak economy scenario that begs the need for large mergers develops, the unwinding of intl growth that's pushing all this will surely follow....the way I see it, the more the respecitve airlines need/want a merger (weak global and domestic economy), the less the actual benefit of such transactions become.

You may see legacy/LCC or LCC/LCC combos in the meantime.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Last edited:
NWA stock is WAY down....must not be about NWA huh?
 
I would expect to see a merger of legacy/legacy and real soon. Top execs are worried about their compensation packages as their stock bonuses are down some 50%, and the industry is headed into a recession. They could pack a pretty nice golden parachute if they merge within the next few months vs down the road.
 
IXLR8 said:
NWA stock is WAY down....must not be about NWA huh?
Click to expand...
Not true. NWA stock was up over 25% today and is currently up 23% for the day. Delta airlines is currently only up 10%. I just made a 25% return on my $ in 2 days. The writing is on the wall for a NWA/Delta merger with NWA being the initiator.
 
YourPilotFriend said:
I would expect to see a merger of legacy/legacy and real soon. Top execs are worried about their compensation packages as their stock bonuses are down some 50%, and the industry is headed into a recession. They could pack a pretty nice golden parachute if they merge within the next few months vs down the road.
Click to expand...

You are right. Doug S. has seen his stock plummet almost 50%. With all the "merger talk", the stocks are beginning a climb again.
 
SEVEN said:
Not true. NWA stock was up over 25% today and is currently up 23% for the day. Delta airlines is currently only up 10%. I just made a 25% return on my $ in 2 days. The writing is on the wall for a NWA/Delta merger with NWA being the initiator.
Click to expand...

Where do you get NWA will be the initiator? The articles I have read lately say otherwise. Please show something that states anything close to what you think will happen.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Huh??

SEVEN said:
I have a crystal ball.
Click to expand...

The highlighted portion below means nothing to you, right? Read it---CHOOSE. What does that mean? They are the initiator.


Reuters
Delta aims to start UAL, Northwest merger talks - WSJ
Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:14pm EST


NEW YORK, Jan 10 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc (DAL.N:
Quote, Profile, Research) plans on Friday to ask its board
permission to begin formal merger talks with both Northwest
Airlines Corp (NWA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and United
Airlines parent UAL Corp (UAUA.O: Quote, Profile, Research),
the Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday.

Citing unnamed people familiar with the matter, the Wall
Street Journal said that Delta would aim to ultimately
choose between the two carriers.



You need to be on the Psychic Friends network...


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
SEVEN said:
The writing is on the wall for a NWA/Delta merger with NWA being the initiator.
Click to expand...

you can wish in one hand and sh!t in the other. Let me know which one fills up first.

and good luck with that day-trading thing...you're obviously not good at it, since if you were, you'd be on your yacht and not a pilot/FI poster.
 
NWA Inc. will survive in some form. Their Pacific Route authority with the 1952? treaty states the routes are to be flown by them. And can't be sold or transfered. NWA also had a poison pill structured into the operation and DAL didn't. Not that it matters in this scenario. Bet they (NWA) makes a deal with Tilton to pull the trigger first with CAL and collect the golden share and then do the DAL merger. The NWA/DAL deal came within $2 in share price and the CEO ego's from happening 20 years ago. It will be, if it happens a a very good fit and route map. So would NWA/CAL. Place your bets. Somethng happens soon. And what happens to AMR and U.S. Air???
 
Heyas,

My bet is on NWA/CAL. It's important to the industry to consolidate the worst crew bases into one airline.

Nu
 
Diesel-9 said:
NWA Inc. will survive in some form. Their Pacific Route authority with the 1952? treaty states the routes are to be flown by them. And can't be sold or transfered. NWA also had a poison pill structured into the operation and DAL didn't. Not that it matters in this scenario. Bet they (NWA) makes a deal with Tilton to pull the trigger first with CAL and collect the golden share and then do the DAL merger. The NWA/DAL deal came within $2 in share price and the CEO ego's from happening 20 years ago. It will be, if it happens a a very good fit and route map. So would NWA/CAL. Place your bets. Somethng happens soon. And what happens to AMR and U.S. Air???
Click to expand...

That is incorrect. It can be changed. A similar treaty was given to Canadian Airlines, and it was transferred to Air Canada after they bought them. We'll see......


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Sorry, but the Air Canada, and all the other deals as in UAL buying Pan Am routes, FedEx getting Flying Tigers Pacific routes were under a different set of circumstances and agreements. That is one of the many values of NWA and its Pacific Route Authority. It is theirs and NWA Inc.'s only. There are a few of the B slots that are negotiable but the bulk must be operated by them/NWA INC. A brilliant move on their part when the treaty was written and NWA helped create JAL. Checci and Wilson looked into selling some of it after the LBO and both governments told them they weren't transferable.
 
Again, there will be no mergers. Too complicated. This whole effort is all for the media to move the stock price of those mentioned.
 
airline#5 said:
Again, there will be no mergers. Too complicated. This whole effort is all for the media to move the stock price of those mentioned.
Click to expand...

Finally some SANITY... I agree that the DOJ could very well neg any merger attempts. And you thought the AWA/USAirways merger integration was messy....
 
Diesel-9 said:
NWA Inc. will survive in some form. Their Pacific Route authority with the 1952? treaty states the routes are to be flown by them. And can't be sold or transfered. NWA also had a poison pill structured into the operation and DAL didn't. Not that it matters in this scenario. Bet they (NWA) makes a deal with Tilton to pull the trigger first with CAL and collect the golden share and then do the DAL merger. The NWA/DAL deal came within $2 in share price and the CEO ego's from happening 20 years ago. It will be, if it happens a a very good fit and route map. So would NWA/CAL. Place your bets. Somethng happens soon. And what happens to AMR and U.S. Air???
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that Occam said that those routes are safe even if the name changes to Delta or something else.
 
Diesel-9 said:
Sorry, but the Air Canada, and all the other deals as in UAL buying Pan Am routes, FedEx getting Flying Tigers Pacific routes were under a different set of circumstances and agreements. That is one of the many values of NWA and its Pacific Route Authority. It is theirs and NWA Inc.'s only. There are a few of the B slots that are negotiable but the bulk must be operated by them/NWA INC. A brilliant move on their part when the treaty was written and NWA helped create JAL. Checci and Wilson looked into selling some of it after the LBO and both governments told them they weren't transferable.
Click to expand...

I think you are wrong, and regardless, the Japanese love golf. So, one golf game near Mt Fuji will settle it. Let the attorneys deal with it----that is why they are paid the big bucks. Our attorneys are great at Kerioke I hear....

Or, we will just call it Delta Orient. Hey, why did you guys drop the Orient part of your name? Wasn't your full name "Northwest Orient" on those treaties? I think it was? Can you just change your name not to include "Orient?" If you can, then we will change to "Delta."


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom