DAL/NWA merger vs acquisition

[wakeupthemonkey]

Where is the merger in this equation? Delta's management, Delta's contract, they're even calling it Delta. Sounds like an acquisition! Where is the benefit for the NWA guys?

 

[JoeMerchant]

DALPA doesn't want anyone to polute their gene pool....Although how tough is it to ask for a wind check or to ask "how long the final is"..??

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Where is the merger in this equation? Delta's management, Delta's contract, they're even calling it Delta. Sounds like an acquisition! Where is the benefit for the NWA guys?

A "merger" is what the Ford & Harrison lawyers at DL HR tell them to call it in public until it goes through, and an "acquisition" is what they tell everybody after the fact, so they can reward the union-busting DL MEC for cooking up a sweetheart deal by making it an acquisition which they can use to staple all the NW pilots to the bottom.

Don't be surprised this newly decided "acquisition" will also play a role in many corrupt acts...for example, an attempt to get out of paying Minnesota the billions they contractually owe them for leaving.

BTW, how does a company with LESS $$$ acquire one with more?
Oh yeah, Ford & Harrison did THAT ONE at Flight Options too, when we "acquired" Raytheon Travel Air...essentially causing a redo/start over of union activity and seniority issues...sound familiar?

Read the "Ford & Harrison" thread to get a SMALL insight on how these people operate.

 

[flyn96]

Where is the merger in this equation? Delta's management, Delta's contract, they're even calling it Delta. Sounds like an acquisition! Where is the benefit for the NWA guys?

Exactly! This isn't Delta decided it was gonna go buy NWA, ala AA and TWA deal. This is two airlines struggling who would could do better together and both have cards to bring to the table. Just because they decided to name it Delta, doesn't mean they are the savior of all red tail employee's.

Ya'll need to work together, instead of trying to figure who's schlong is bigger!!!!

 

[800Dog]

DALPA doesn't want anyone to polute their gene pool....Although how tough is it to ask for a wind check or to ask "how long the final is"..??

Not nearly as difficult as it is to sue for something you could never gain on your own and come up short. Loser!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Exactly! This isn't Delta decided it was gonna go buy NWA, ala AA and TWA deal. This is two airlines struggling who would could do better together and both have cards to bring to the table. Just because they decided to name it Delta, doesn't mean they are the savior of all red tail employee's.

Shhhh! The DL pilots don't want this to be pointed out...Let the thread fall to the last page...
(not)

 

[PuffDriver]

Shhhh! The DL pilots don't want this to be pointed out...Let the thread fall to the last page...
(not)

It's funny watching all the left out rj pilots come in with their tough talk after they took one up the whizzwang and their lawyer ran off with all the money

 

[gutshotdraw]

VOR, I know the Delta guys would LOVE to staple the Red Tails to the bottom of their list but, I seem to recall an amendment to the Age 65 legislation that would require any future airline combinations (merger or acquisition, take your pick) to "fairly" integrate employees of the new carrier. "Fair" is a moving target that clearly means different things to different people but I don't think a staple job qualifies under anybody's definition.

I'm just REALLY glad I don't work for an airline and that my decidedly better half got out of NWA when she did.

 

[Tanker1497]

gutshotdraw....

VOR, I know the Delta guys would LOVE to staple the Red Tails to the bottom of their list...

If you think this is what Delta pilots want, then you show you are ignorant to the situation at hand.

 

[Going2Baja]

VOR, I know the Delta guys would LOVE to staple the Red Tails to the bottom of their list...

If you think this is what Delta pilots want, then you show you are ignorant to the situation at hand.

Keep up the lies to yourself Tanker.......

I think the truth to all of this can be found in the past. As I recall when Delta purchased the remainder of Pan Am they NEVER did pay the money owed. There was a seniority merger but it wasn't in favor for anyone but the DAL guys and they never did accept the Pan Am guys.

I have recently talked to one of my dad's friends who was an Ex Pan Am ==> Delta pilot and I asked him what he thought of the merger. He said do anything you can to stay away, that DAL management is NEVER thinking of their employees.

Very interesting times my friends....very interesting. Should be one hell of a Summer eh?

Baja.

 

[General Lee]

Keep up the lies to yourself Tanker.......

I think the truth to all of this can be found in the past. As I recall when Delta purchased the remainder of Pan Am they NEVER did pay the money owed. There was a seniority merger but it wasn't in favor for anyone but the DAL guys and they never did accept the Pan Am guys.

I have recently talked to one of my dad's friends who was an Ex Pan Am ==> Delta pilot and I asked him what he thought of the merger. He said do anything you can to stay away, that DAL management is NEVER thinking of their employees.

Very interesting times my friends....very interesting. Should be one hell of a Summer eh?

Baja.

You don't think the ex Pan Am guy was biased? Ask him about the "Dirty 30" Pan Am guys---the 30 senior 747 Captains that got wind of the possible buyout, all bid DOWN to the 727 Shuttle, kicked 30 guys out, and when DL bought them rebid the 767ER immediately and stayed senior until they all retired. And, all of the past DL management that handled the Pan Am stuff are long gone. Does it mean Richard Anderson is a godsend that will only be nice to us? No. But so far he is a lot better than previous leaders. Time will tell.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Going2Baja]

You don't think the ex Pan Am guy was biased? Ask him about the "Dirty 30" Pan Am guys---the 30 senior 747 Captains that got wind of the possible buyout, all bid DOWN to the 727 Shuttle, kicked 30 guys out, and when DL bought them rebid the 767ER immediately and stayed senior until they all retired. And, all of the past DL management that handled the Pan Am stuff are long gone. Does it mean Richard Anderson is a godsend that will only be nice to us? No. But so far he is a lot better than previous leaders. Time will tell.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Sorry this time General - Not sure I buy it. My friend was a senior 747 check pilot to the last day. At DAL he started as a 727 capt and then went from a/c to a/c and retired in the 777 in ATL. He was lucky enough to maintain seat position but lost years of service at PAA.

Although the management may be gone I believe the culture still remains.

Good luck to all!!

Baja.

 

[General Lee]

Sorry this time General - Not sure I buy it. My friend was a senior 747 check pilot to the last day. At DAL he started as a 727 capt and then went from a/c to a/c and retired in the 777 in ATL. He was lucky enough to maintain seat position but lost years of service at PAA.

Although the management may be gone I believe the culture still remains.

Good luck to all!!



Not sure you buy it??? Okay...... Ask him about the Dirty 30. (do you think they could have had that nickname for a reason? They are famous) They all went to JFK 767ER on a subsequent bid and stayed senior in JFK until they retired. Some of those guys were lucky, and they screwed their own in the process. That is aviation. And, almost everyone in a top level management position at Delta now was not there during 9-11 or BK. There are a lot of newer faces. Not all things are peachy, but they are getting better hopefully. Probably better than at Alaska.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

retired in the 777 in ATL.

My heart bleeds for him.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

VOR, I know the Delta guys would LOVE to staple the Red Tails to the bottom of their list but, I seem to recall an amendment to the Age 65 legislation that would require any future airline combinations (merger or acquisition, take your pick) to "fairly" integrate employees of the new carrier. "Fair" is a moving target that clearly means different things to different people but I don't think a staple job qualifies under anybody's definition.

I'm just REALLY glad I don't work for an airline and that my decidedly better half got out of NWA when she did.

So that stands regardless of the merger or acquisition verbage they use?...Thanks...I was just about to post a question asking that.
It's difficult to tell WHERE the place to be is these days... All I know is I can't be doing 7 or 8 day trips much longer, REGARDLESS of the alleged "vacation" every other week. Kicks my butt for the first several days, then catchup on all that needs to be done, and it feels like 2 days off.
I'd like to go somewhere else, since Ford & Harrison destroyed FLOPS, but it looks like they're quite busy at DL/NWA/AWA/USAir and everywhere else.
Why can't they just use all that money for something better than making careers out of killing airlines?
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=109308

 

[~~~^~~~]

My friend was a senior 747 check pilot to the last day. At DAL he started as a 727 capt and then went from a/c to a/c and retired in the 777 in ATL. He was lucky enough to maintain seat position but lost years of service at PAA.

Baja.

Boo Hoo :crying:

If he stayed at Pan Am, like the true blue bloods did, he would have let himself out of the fire escape with the guy who wrote "SkyGods" after his sim powered down and he found the front of the Training Center was padlocked by creditors. I'm not happy about Pan Am's fate, but the fate of your friend was much better because of Delta Air Lines.

There are ingrates everywhere. There were Flying Tigers guys who failed their FedEx sim checks because they refused to follow FedEx procedures after their merger. FedEx fired them. I do not know if it was just, or injust, but when things change you have to make the best of the situation. Being bitter never has a good result.

 

[michael707767]

Sorry this time General - Not sure I buy it. My friend was a senior 747 check pilot to the last day. .

either you misunderstood what your friend told you or he lied. Only A-310 and 727 pilots came over in the acquisition of Pan Am.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Maybe he was a "dirty 30" ?

 

[General Lee]

either you misunderstood what your friend told you or he lied. Only A-310 and 727 pilots came over in the acquisition of Pan Am.

As I told him, the dirty 30 downbid to the 727, and then were awarded 767 in a subsequent bid. And FINS could be correct, maybe he was a "dirty 30" himself. He did retire on the 777.

Hey Baja, why don't you call him up and whisper into the phone, "are YOU A DIRTY 30, PUNK?"


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Voice Of Reason]

This message is blocked because GeneralLee is on your (and most people's) ignore list

Did someone say something?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Hey Baja, why don't you call him up and whisper into the phone, "are YOU A DIRTY 30, PUNK?"

Because he might say (que Austin Powers theme)

Yeah Baby! Dig my MoJo? Have you met my midget? They call him Kick Stand.

 

[737 Pylt]

DALPA doesn't want anyone to polute their gene pool....

No, just scumbag rjdc supporters with DUI's, multiple busted checkrides, and no college........

Although how tough is it to ask for a wind check or to ask "how long the final is"..??

Obviosy not as tough as hiring an overpaid lawyer, suiing your fellow pilots for something you couldn't achieve through the interview process, and oh yeah, bitching about it on an an anonomyous message board!
Soud familiar sport?

737

 

[greasejob]

Sorry this time General - Not sure I buy it. My friend was a senior 747 check pilot to the last day. At DAL he started as a 727 capt and then went from a/c to a/c and retired in the 777 in ATL. He was lucky enough to maintain seat position but lost years of service at PAA.

I was in NYC in 1991 when Delta bought PanAm and stayed NYC based until 2000. A flew on the 76ER with many PanAm guys, all good guys, and they were not treated any differently than anyone else. I shared a crachpad with a few of them as well. What your friend is telling you is nonsense.


As far losing years of service, that's true. When Delta bought PanAm we took pilots with the aircrafts we bought. A B727 comes with B727 Captains not MD11 Captains. It would not have been fair to Delta pilots to take B727s from PanAm and then give them an MD11 seat after they came over. If he came over in a B727 Capt's seat he was integrated at Delta with other B727 Capts. If he thought he was going to come over as a B727 Captain and then get integrated as a MD11 Captain he needs a reality check. Sound like one of the dirty 30s it's all about me crowd, that screwed their own PanAm buddies to get over to Delta. If he was treated differently, then it was by his own former PanAm pilots who knew what he had done.


It was your friends choice to downbid to the B727 on the PanAm side for the sole purpose of coming over to Delta. He retired off the B777 making about $300/hr...yeah, he got hosed big time. Why don't you ask him how well his buddies did that stayed with PanAm?


Although the management may be gone I believe the culture still remains.

You base that belief on what? The toothfairy?

 

[Airbus_Driver]

VOR, I know the Delta guys would LOVE to staple the Red Tails to the bottom of their list...

If you think this is what Delta pilots want, then you show you are ignorant to the situation at hand.

I am not so sure Tanker. Maybe not the Delta pilots as a whole but perhaps the DL MEC does?

A little history...

When Northwest went to merge with Republic in 86 and a seniority list could not be worked out between the two MECs, Northwest negotiated separately with NWA pilots (sound familiar). NWA pilots over the next 3 years received raises, new equipment and even hired pilots. Republic pilots suffered from career stagnation as they had NO hiring of pilots, purchased NO new equipment and received NO raises even though they were all considered "Northwest".

Although a merger of seniority lists finally did occur (if you want to call Roberts awards anything but sensible), the financial toll on Republic pilots was significant. I would argue that more junior NWA pilots also suffered due to the complexities of the Roberts Awards that kept them from upgrading or positioning to different equipment and hence decreasing potential career earnings. But it was that sense of humiliation that prevented homogeneity between pilot groups for over a decade.

Bottom line...DL MEC has never read aviation labor history and should never have negotiated a separate deal with management. The NWA MEC shouldn't grandstand and appear so resistant to change. Their complete lack of communication and one sided opinions do a huge disservice to the NWA pilot group. I don't believe in a "go it alone" approach. It is both arrogant and ignorant.

The results of both groups actions will have serious consequences on our professional careers.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Bottom line...DL MEC has never read aviation labor history and should never have negotiated a separate deal with management. The NWA MEC shouldn't grandstand and appear so resistant to change. Their complete lack of communication and one sided opinions do a huge disservice to the NWA pilot group. I don't believe in a "go it alone" approach. It is both arrogant and ignorant.

The results of both groups actions will have serious consequences on our professional careers.

COMPLETELY agree...this whole deal just fell in line with the plan Ford & Harrison had all along.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Voice of Reason: You give Ford & Harrison too much credit. ALPA has done this to itself without external help.

Airbus Driver: How would you have done things differently?

 

[TWA Dude]

Not another thread on this nonsense!

ALL mergers are acquisitions. The good news, as far as ALPA Merger Policy goes, it's irrelevent who bought whom.