DAL j/s for CAL pilots

[Plug]

Last week on my way up to "the sewer" (EWR) I hopped on a DAL flight that left earlier than my planned CAL flight. The DAL flight was wide open with maybe 40 people on an MD88. As I approached the gate there was a DAL pilot filling out a j/s form and he kindly road on a pass so as to get me on. Thank you to that DAL pilot by the way! What boggled me was that the gate wasn't going to give me a j/s form unless this DAL pilot gave it up. Then a supervisor explained to me that only AA and SWA has unlimited j/s with DAL. I was under the impression that CAL was on the unlimited RECIPRICOL j/s list with DAL. Is this not the case?

 

[Pat Fabin]

I know we got the unlimited reciprocal with CAL in our last concession agreement, but I don't think it has been implemented quite yet. Glad you got to work though!

-PF

 

[Palomino]

Last week on my way up to "the sewer" (EWR) I hopped on a DAL flight that left earlier than my planned CAL flight. The DAL flight was wide open with maybe 40 people on an MD88. As I approached the gate there was a DAL pilot filling out a j/s form and he kindly road on a pass so as to get me on. Thank you to that DAL pilot by the way! What boggled me was that the gate wasn't going to give me a j/s form unless this DAL pilot gave it up. Then a supervisor explained to me that only AA and SWA has unlimited j/s with DAL. I was under the impression that CAL was on the unlimited RECIPRICOL j/s list with DAL. Is this not the case?

glad to see that DAL pilots have maintained a level of class despite their management's best efforts to remove dignity from the rest of the operation.

kudos to this DAL pilot.

 

[Caveman]

I was j/s from PIT recently and was the first OAL jumpseater waiting for a DCI flight. I had been waiting for about 2 hours. The flight wasn't full but there were enough nonrevs that it would be full when it left the gate. I was first in line for the j/s so I wasn't sweating it. At the last minute a DAL Captain showed up and instead of nonreving he asked for the j/s. Of course he got it (as it should be). What kind of bugged me was if he had nonreved he would have got on because of his seniority and I could have had the j/s. He wouldn't even look at me and I was standing about 6 feet from him. Before anybody gets their panties in a wad I know that company nonrevs have priority over OAL jumpseaters, but most pilots will help out a guy commuting by NOT claiming the actual j/s. He clearly was within his right to do what he did, but I still felt it was a bit tacky. I've been in the reverse position before and refused to deadhead up front because I knew a j/s was trying to get on. I wouldn't do it if it caused a revenue pax to lose their seat and I wouldn't expect anybody else to either. Again, the guy didn't violate any policy. I just thought we all had a gentlemen's agreement to help each other out.

 

[ATRCA]

I was j/s from PIT recently and was the first OAL jumpseater waiting for a DCI flight. I had been waiting for about 2 hours. The flight wasn't full but there were enough nonrevs that it would be full when it left the gate. I was first in line for the j/s so I wasn't sweating it. At the last minute a DAL Captain showed up and instead of nonreving he asked for the j/s. Of course he got it (as it should be). What kind of bugged me was if he had nonreved he would have got on because of his seniority and I could have had the j/s. He wouldn't even look at me and I was standing about 6 feet from him. Before anybody gets their panties in a wad I know that company nonrevs have priority over OAL jumpseaters, but most pilots will help out a guy commuting by NOT claiming the actual j/s. He clearly was within his right to do what he did, but I still felt it was a bit tacky. I've been in the reverse position before and refused to deadhead up front because I knew a j/s was trying to get on. I wouldn't do it if it caused a revenue pax to lose their seat and I wouldn't expect anybody else to either. Again, the guy didn't violate any policy. I just thought we all had a gentlemen's agreement to help each other out.

I agree, I don't like the move. A question for you. Were you wearing your Blue's?

 

[CJA]

I was j/s from PIT recently and was the first OAL jumpseater waiting for a DCI flight. I had been waiting for about 2 hours. The flight wasn't full but there were enough nonrevs that it would be full when it left the gate. I was first in line for the j/s so I wasn't sweating it. At the last minute a DAL Captain showed up and instead of nonreving he asked for the j/s. Of course he got it (as it should be). What kind of bugged me was if he had nonreved he would have got on because of his seniority and I could have had the j/s. He wouldn't even look at me and I was standing about 6 feet from him. Before anybody gets their panties in a wad I know that company nonrevs have priority over OAL jumpseaters, but most pilots will help out a guy commuting by NOT claiming the actual j/s. He clearly was within his right to do what he did, but I still felt it was a bit tacky. I've been in the reverse position before and refused to deadhead up front because I knew a j/s was trying to get on. I wouldn't do it if it caused a revenue pax to lose their seat and I wouldn't expect anybody else to either. Again, the guy didn't violate any policy. I just thought we all had a gentlemen's agreement to help each other out.

That's a tough call, who do you screw, OAL jumpseater or your company's non-revver? Haven't had to face that situation so I can't say, but I have been bumped from flights on other airlines due to non-revvers and I have no hard feelings, that is just the nature of the beast.

 

[dojetdriver]

I was j/s from PIT recently and was the first OAL jumpseater waiting for a DCI flight. I had been waiting for about 2 hours. The flight wasn't full but there were enough nonrevs that it would be full when it left the gate. I was first in line for the j/s so I wasn't sweating it. At the last minute a DAL Captain showed up and instead of nonreving he asked for the j/s. Of course he got it (as it should be). What kind of bugged me was if he had nonreved he would have got on because of his seniority and I could have had the j/s. He wouldn't even look at me and I was standing about 6 feet from him. Before anybody gets their panties in a wad I know that company nonrevs have priority over OAL jumpseaters, but most pilots will help out a guy commuting by NOT claiming the actual j/s. He clearly was within his right to do what he did, but I still felt it was a bit tacky. I've been in the reverse position before and refused to deadhead up front because I knew a j/s was trying to get on. I wouldn't do it if it caused a revenue pax to lose their seat and I wouldn't expect anybody else to either. Again, the guy didn't violate any policy. I just thought we all had a gentlemen's agreement to help each other out.

This happens on CAL as well. CAL pilot is stressing out he won't get on, so he asks for the JS and goes down early. They start clearing the SA list and sure enough, not everybody shows and he could hold a seat in the back and I don't get on. Like you said, his airline blah blah blah, but it's terribly inconsiderate to another commuter. Especially when he sees you standing there.

By coincidence, the four guys that have done it's names are all on a certain list.

 

[IAHERJ]

So let me get this straight, you check a list and remember these guys names etc?? Let me tell you something, we have unlimited jumpseats and if there are seats in the back, you will get on no matter where that pilot is. Not the case at Delta. Delta is slowly joining the rest of the world but they have a long way to go. Speaking of lists, what list are you on? Just curious, when were you born? I was born in 75 and was in the 3rd grade when CAL had the strike. I don't make it an issue and I work with these people on a regular basis. Who in the hell do you think you are checking a list when you are bumming a ride on our airline?? I don't agree with what these people did and wouldn't work during a strike ever(luckily I have the means to last a long time without working), but it is not your issue. Find another ride to work.

IAHERJ

 

[dojetdriver]

So let me get this straight, you check a list and remember these guys names etc?? Let me tell you something, we have unlimited jumpseats and if there are seats in the back, you will get on no matter where that pilot is. Not the case at Delta. Delta is slowly joining the rest of the world but they have a long way to go. Speaking of lists, what list are you on? Just curious, when were you born? I was born in 75 and was in the 3rd grade when CAL had the strike. I don't make it an issue and I work with these people on a regular basis. Who in the hell do you think you are checking a list when you are bumming a ride on our airline?? I don't agree with what these people did and wouldn't work during a strike ever(luckily I have the means to last a long time without working), but it is not your issue. Find another ride to work.

IAHERJ

Settle down there tough guy, take a breath.

I work for ExpressJet, I'm sure you are smart enough to figure that out who that is. With me so far? The list is published of all the SA's, including the JS'ers. Still with me? Good. Like I said, the mainline pilot will not list as SA3, JS only. Decides to go down without ever bothering to see if he can hold a seat in the back. Other people that have more years of sevice than me but less than him (fa's, ect) get called and get on. If he elected to not be so selfish, both myself and HIM could get to work. If he was riding on my airline, I'd do the same for him if that was an option.

 

[IAHERJ]

Since you want to educate me on my airline's pass policies, lets get it right, okay? Stay with me bud. If he lists as only a SJ1, he goes below your SA3(for now). He will not even get a seat until every SA rider is given a seat however he is listed for the jumpseat. If your SA3 is senior enough to get a seat, then away you go. What you are saying is that you would like him to always list as an SA3 and bump other SA 3's and 4's so that you can have the jumpseat as a SJ (whateverXJT is 4?). IF there are enough seats for everyone, nobody sits in the jump unless they really want to. You want him to bump another employee because you can't bump him from the jumpseat? Sorry, but no matter what he did during the strike, he has the right to list for the jumpseat and or a seat anytime he/she wants. If the flight is full and it is on anything other than a 737, most pilots would rather relax in the spacious flightdeck rather than ride in the middle seat in coach. That is their option as it will be yours one day soon when you are at CAL should you chose to go over.

IAHERJ

 

[Ben Franklin]

I jumped on DAL about 2 months ago. There was a positive space rider in the Jumpseat with form already filled out. I filled out my form and got a seat in the back. Thanks to the CA who "skooled" the gate agent on the unlimited J/S.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[dojetdriver]

Since you want to educate me on my airline's pass policies, lets get it right, okay? Stay with me bud. If he lists as only a SJ1, he goes below your SA3(for now). He will not even get a seat until every SA rider is given a seat however he is listed for the jumpseat. If your SA3 is senior enough to get a seat, then away you go. What you are saying is that you would like him to always list as an SA3 and bump other SA 3's and 4's so that you can have the jumpseat as a SJ (whateverXJT is 4?). IF there are enough seats for everyone, nobody sits in the jump unless they really want to. You want him to bump another employee because you can't bump him from the jumpseat? Sorry, but no matter what he did during the strike, he has the right to list for the jumpseat and or a seat anytime he/she wants. If the flight is full and it is on anything other than a 737, most pilots would rather relax in the spacious flightdeck rather than ride in the middle seat in coach. That is their option as it will be yours one day soon when you are at CAL should you chose to go over.

IAHERJ

So, let me get this straight. Caveman runs into the same frustrating situation I do. I get a lecture because I can relate, he doesn't. Good job there bud. Like I said, myself as well as 99% of other commurters I know would/have done the same thing for another guy.

 

[IAHERJ]

He was talking about a Delta flight. Delta does not honor the unlimited jumpseat policy with other airlines like they are supposed to be implimenting as we speak. Different issue.

IAHERJ

 

[dojetdriver]

He was talking about a Delta flight. Delta does not honor the unlimited jumpseat policy with other airlines like they are supposed to be implimenting as we speak. Different issue.

IAHERJ

No, it's the same issue. Said pilot can non-rev in the back on his own airline but elects to take the JS. Slightly selfish. Just because I have pass privs on CAL doesn't matter. Selfish pilot elects to take the JS instead of helping out a fellow pilot.

Try again.

 

[IAHERJ]

Okay here goes. Said pilot in this situation has no other choice than to try(as an offline jumpseater) to get on flight. Said airline has a jumpseat policy that supposedly has changed to allow multiple jumpseaters from certain airlines. Jumpseater from said airline doesn't think to list in the back nor inquire if any other jumpseaters from other airlines were present. Your situation is different as you can list for the jumpseat as well as a seat without having to ask an agent period. Seniority prevails and you are considered online, not offline.

Okay, tired of the debate. Drinking too much on my end. Need to go to bed so that my days off will be more productive.

IAHERJ

 

[dojetdriver]

Okay, tired of the debate. Drinking too much on my end. Need to go to bed so that my days off will be more productive.

IAHERJ

I think this statement pretty much sums up the reason for your ignorance of the situation.

 

[IAHERJ]

Hooray!!!! You win!!!!!!!!!

Dork

 

[arthompson]

The other thing that happens is that gate agents would rather give seats to their own company and affiliates, offline gets seats only when all company and company affiliate nrsa's are taken care of.

 

[dojetdriver]

Originally Posted by IAHERJ

Okay, tired of the debate. Drinking too much on my end. Need to go to bed so that my days off will be more productive.

IAHERJ

I think this statement pretty much sums up the reason for your ignorance of the situation.

Hooray!!!! You win!!!!!!!!!

Dork

Need I say more?

 

[Jolly Roger]

Need I say more?

no.....

 

[General Lee]

Last week on my way up to "the sewer" (EWR) I hopped on a DAL flight that left earlier than my planned CAL flight. The DAL flight was wide open with maybe 40 people on an MD88. As I approached the gate there was a DAL pilot filling out a j/s form and he kindly road on a pass so as to get me on. Thank you to that DAL pilot by the way! What boggled me was that the gate wasn't going to give me a j/s form unless this DAL pilot gave it up. Then a supervisor explained to me that only AA and SWA has unlimited j/s with DAL. I was under the impression that CAL was on the unlimited RECIPRICOL j/s list with DAL. Is this not the case?

That person at the gate was incorrect. I believe we just allowed CAL, NW, and Alaska pilots unlimited seats, along with the AA and SW guys. We start the same thing with UAL and USAir Jan 1st of 07. Why? Who knows. I hope someday we allow it for EVERYONE.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Caveman]

In the original poster's scenario it's a good thing that the DAL guy had SA and did not 'jumpseat'. However, just to set the record straight for those that might not be aware, DAL has unlimited free pass privileges for employees. It never costs a DAL employee a dime to ride domestic. The only difference between the 'jumpseat' and a 'pass' is that for a pass the pilot is competing against all standbys based on seniority/priority. On the jumpseat he's only competing against other pilots and of course has priority over OAL guys. If a DAL pilot elects to use nonrev privileges he leaves the j/s open for OAL pilots. Unless there is a danger that his seniority or priority won't get him on there is no reason for a DAL pilot to claim the actual jumpseat unless he intentionally or unintentionally wants to screw certain OAL pilot groups. What happened in my case? I can only guess, but it's happened twice recently. Both times the circumstances were exactly the same. In the PIT example I had to wait for the next flight. On the other occasion, the guy ended up screwing himself because at the last moment they figured out there was an extra seat in the cabin, the first class cabin.

In both cases it's entirely possible the DAL pilots had no idea there was an OAL pilot waiting for the jumpseat. They may have simply asked the gate agent how full the flight was and being told it would be full said they would ride the jumpseat thinking they were helping out. In the PIT example my instincts tell me otherwise, but the in other scenario that might have been the case.

The overwhelming majority of times I've attempted to j/s on DAL mainline it's been a pleasant experience. I'm almost always greeted warmly by the crews and treated courteously and graciously. I am NOT trying to paint a negative picture about jumpseating DAL. Like most B6 pilots I don't understand why DAL won't reciprocate for us, but that's a different topic than this thread.

 

[Plug]

That person at the gate was incorrect. I believe we just allowed CAL, NW, and Alaska pilots unlimited seats, along with the AA and SW guys. We start the same thing with UAL and USAir Jan 1st of 07. Why? Who knows. I hope someday we allow it for EVERYONE.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

I have already sent an email to the CAL j/s chairman regarding the situation. Hopefully, this will be resolved soon.

Dojet,

I agree with you in assesment that the CAL pilot could use an SA pass to get on, but then again so can you and thus would go on before him/her. Fact is, CAL passes suck as I was used to the Delta passes I had at ASA.

Cheers

 

[tomgoodman]

Slow to change

For a long time, Delta pilots didn't even HAVE the jumpseat, making commuting even harder. The alleged reason was that non-union employees would resent it if we had such a privilege. We assumed it would cost a bundle of negotiating capital to get it, but eventually the company realized that helping pilots get to work was in their interest too. The "window" to reserve a jump seat opens earlier for those going to work, then it's by DOH. The FAA can still bump you, of course.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

In the original poster's scenario it's a good thing that the DAL guy had SA and did not 'jumpseat'. However, just to set the record straight for those that might not be aware, DAL has unlimited free pass privileges for employees. It never costs a DAL employee a dime to ride domestic. The only difference between the 'jumpseat' and a 'pass' is that for a pass the pilot is competing against all standbys based on seniority/priority. On the jumpseat he's only competing against other pilots and of course has priority over OAL guys. If a DAL pilot elects to use nonrev privileges he leaves the j/s open for OAL pilots. Unless there is a danger that his seniority or priority won't get him on there is no reason for a DAL pilot to claim the actual jumpseat unless he intentionally or unintentionally wants to screw certain OAL pilot groups. What happened in my case? I can only guess, but it's happened twice recently. Both times the circumstances were exactly the same. In the PIT example I had to wait for the next flight. On the other occasion, the guy ended up screwing himself because at the last moment they figured out there was an extra seat in the cabin, the first class cabin.

In both cases it's entirely possible the DAL pilots had no idea there was an OAL pilot waiting for the jumpseat. They may have simply asked the gate agent how full the flight was and being told it would be full said they would ride the jumpseat thinking they were helping out. In the PIT example my instincts tell me otherwise, but the in other scenario that might have been the case.

The overwhelming majority of times I've attempted to j/s on DAL mainline it's been a pleasant experience. I'm almost always greeted warmly by the crews and treated courteously and graciously. I am NOT trying to paint a negative picture about jumpseating DAL. Like most B6 pilots I don't understand why DAL won't reciprocate for us, but that's a different topic than this thread.

Hey there Caveman. Not jumping into this one again <g>. Hope most DAL are treating you right. Sempre Fi

Ben

 

[General Lee]

For a long time, Delta pilots didn't even HAVE the jumpseat, making commuting even harder. The alleged reason was that non-union employees would resent it if we had such a privilege. We assumed it would cost a bundle of negotiating capital to get it, but eventually the company realized that helping pilots get to work was in their interest too. The "window" to reserve a jump seat opens earlier for those going to work, then it's by DOH. The FAA can still bump you, of course.

Tom,

I don't think it is DOH for any part of our jumpseat. For Delta pilots, it is first come first serve, either on the phone requesting it, or showing up at the gate. That is the beauty of it. No senior pilots walking up at the last minute and taking the seat. Whoever is faster at calling or running to the gate gets the seat, unless an FAA guy is there. I think our way is the FAIR way. First come, first serve.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[dojetdriver]

General,

I have already sent an email to the CAL j/s chairman regarding the situation. Hopefully, this will be resolved soon.

Dojet,

I agree with you in assesment that the CAL pilot could use an SA pass to get on, but then again so can you and thus would go on before him/her. Fact is, CAL passes suck as I was used to the Delta passes I had at ASA.

Cheers

Ageed, I COULD do that. Seeing as how I am a commute, I wouldn't do that to another pilot trying to get home or to work.

 

[tomgoodman]

Tom,
I don't think it is DOH for any part of our jumpseat.

Oops! You're right, DOH is for passes.

 

[curtaindriver]

I think it's quite sad that even with a concessionary agreement DAL couldn't even secure unlimited jumpseats. Every regional airline I can think of has that. It's quite disturbing that only some airlines make the "cut". B6 will probably never get that reciprocity with Delta, but we will gladly take every Delta guy or gal we can fit in the plane.

CD

 

[retired guy]

Starting this year, Delta active employees and retirees must pay a yearly fee to nonrev.