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DAL Bankruptcy Today...
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On Your Six
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Wouldn't surprise me given the huge debt and pension liabilities looming - you could actually use bankruptcy as a tool to reduce the debt burden somewhat.sleepy said:
I would CAUTION the strong language on the title, however, because the SEC could be watching for stock manipulation... Just a friendly reminder.
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On Your Six
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Pilots still talking to DAL Management...
Pilot Talks Continue As Delta Shares Fall
Monday October 11, 4:40 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer Pilot Talks Continue As Delta Air Lines Shares Fall on Concerns Over Possible Bankruptcy
ATLANTA (AP) -- Shares of Delta Air Lines Inc. fell Monday on the fear among some analysts that the struggling carrier will be forced into bankruptcy if it doesn't get significant wage concessions from its pilots in the next three weeks.
Representatives for the nation's third largest airline and its pilots union said the two sides continue to negotiate, though they would not say if a deal is possible soon. Meanwhile, 99 Delta pilots retired in September, effective Oct. 1, the union said Monday.
In a research note published Monday, Morgan Stanley airline analyst William Greene advised clients to avoid Delta's shares. The firm estimated Delta will lose $14 a share this year, $3.90 a share in the third quarter alone. Delta reports its third-quarter earnings on Oct. 20.
"We continue to believe that absent a pilot deal this month, Delta's liquidity is too low to avoid a Chapter 11 filing," Greene wrote.
He said he believes that view "is also consistent with management's public statements." Last month, chief executive Gerald Grinstein said that if all the elements of Delta's cost reduction program are not in place in the "near term," the airline would be forced to restructure through the courts.
Atlanta-based Delta has refused to be more specific on what it means by "near term." Company spokeswoman Benet Wilson declined to comment Monday on the timing of a possible bankruptcy filing. Delta has asked for $1 billion in concessions from its pilots, who have offered up to $705 million.
On the New York Stock Exchange, shares of Delta fell 18 cents, or 5.5 percent, to close Monday at $3.08. The stock has fallen more than 90 percent since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. The day before the attacks, the stock closed at $37.25. The stock is still above its 52-week low of $2.94 posted on Sept. 27.
Delta has lost more than $5 billion and cut its work force by 16,000 jobs in the last three years. It said last month that it would cut up to another 7,000 jobs over the next year and a half.
The company staved off a bankruptcy filing at the end of September when it reached a deal with its pilots to allow the company to recall early retired pilots on a limited basis to help ease staffing shortages.
Since Jan. 1, 625 pilots have retired, 505 of them before the normal retirement age of 60, according to the union. Seventy-one of the 99 pilots who retired in September were early retirements, union spokeswoman Karen Miller said.
As of Monday, Delta had roughly 7,100 active pilots and 809 more on furlough, Miller said. The total is down significantly from the roughly 10,000 pilots Delta had at the time of the terrorist attacks. On Thursday, the union said in a memo to pilots that progress has been made on negotiations on changes to work rules and that comprehensive negotiations were expected to resume as early as the next day. The union had no further update Monday. Its board of directors is set to hold its biennial meeting next Monday in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. The union said its negotiating committee will be in Ft. Lauderdale as well and will be available to continue to negotiate with management.
Pilot Talks Continue As Delta Shares Fall
Monday October 11, 4:40 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer Pilot Talks Continue As Delta Air Lines Shares Fall on Concerns Over Possible Bankruptcy
ATLANTA (AP) -- Shares of Delta Air Lines Inc. fell Monday on the fear among some analysts that the struggling carrier will be forced into bankruptcy if it doesn't get significant wage concessions from its pilots in the next three weeks.
Representatives for the nation's third largest airline and its pilots union said the two sides continue to negotiate, though they would not say if a deal is possible soon. Meanwhile, 99 Delta pilots retired in September, effective Oct. 1, the union said Monday.
In a research note published Monday, Morgan Stanley airline analyst William Greene advised clients to avoid Delta's shares. The firm estimated Delta will lose $14 a share this year, $3.90 a share in the third quarter alone. Delta reports its third-quarter earnings on Oct. 20.
"We continue to believe that absent a pilot deal this month, Delta's liquidity is too low to avoid a Chapter 11 filing," Greene wrote.
He said he believes that view "is also consistent with management's public statements." Last month, chief executive Gerald Grinstein said that if all the elements of Delta's cost reduction program are not in place in the "near term," the airline would be forced to restructure through the courts.
Atlanta-based Delta has refused to be more specific on what it means by "near term." Company spokeswoman Benet Wilson declined to comment Monday on the timing of a possible bankruptcy filing. Delta has asked for $1 billion in concessions from its pilots, who have offered up to $705 million.
On the New York Stock Exchange, shares of Delta fell 18 cents, or 5.5 percent, to close Monday at $3.08. The stock has fallen more than 90 percent since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. The day before the attacks, the stock closed at $37.25. The stock is still above its 52-week low of $2.94 posted on Sept. 27.
Delta has lost more than $5 billion and cut its work force by 16,000 jobs in the last three years. It said last month that it would cut up to another 7,000 jobs over the next year and a half.
The company staved off a bankruptcy filing at the end of September when it reached a deal with its pilots to allow the company to recall early retired pilots on a limited basis to help ease staffing shortages.
Since Jan. 1, 625 pilots have retired, 505 of them before the normal retirement age of 60, according to the union. Seventy-one of the 99 pilots who retired in September were early retirements, union spokeswoman Karen Miller said.
As of Monday, Delta had roughly 7,100 active pilots and 809 more on furlough, Miller said. The total is down significantly from the roughly 10,000 pilots Delta had at the time of the terrorist attacks. On Thursday, the union said in a memo to pilots that progress has been made on negotiations on changes to work rules and that comprehensive negotiations were expected to resume as early as the next day. The union had no further update Monday. Its board of directors is set to hold its biennial meeting next Monday in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. The union said its negotiating committee will be in Ft. Lauderdale as well and will be available to continue to negotiate with management.
General Lee
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Sounds like the boy who cried wolf. I think the SEC should look into your post, since it could have an effect on who buys or sells stock. The thing that is wrong is that your title is "certain." Too bad you didn't say "possible".
Didn't I just see an article on Yahoo finance that stated that analysts predicted a pilot concession contract within 3 weeks from now or possible Chap 11?
I know you are happy to be gone Sleepy, but watch what or how you post. You should know better.... You better be right.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Didn't I just see an article on Yahoo finance that stated that analysts predicted a pilot concession contract within 3 weeks from now or possible Chap 11?
I know you are happy to be gone Sleepy, but watch what or how you post. You should know better.... You better be right.
Bye Bye--General Lee
bafanguy
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sleepy,
I would just add to the General's comments by saying that many of us on this forum literally have the rest of our lives riding on the success/failure of Delta. To make comments regarding BK without a reliable source is wrecklessly irresponsible and causes a good bit of consternation to some of your fellow aviators. I will give you credit for not being some thrill seeker who gets his kicks by alarming the innocent bystanders.
If you have truly "inside" information about this, then give your source. If not, perhaps remaining silent until reliable sources appear would be the noble thing to do.
I would not wish for YOU to be in our position.
I would just add to the General's comments by saying that many of us on this forum literally have the rest of our lives riding on the success/failure of Delta. To make comments regarding BK without a reliable source is wrecklessly irresponsible and causes a good bit of consternation to some of your fellow aviators. I will give you credit for not being some thrill seeker who gets his kicks by alarming the innocent bystanders.
If you have truly "inside" information about this, then give your source. If not, perhaps remaining silent until reliable sources appear would be the noble thing to do.
I would not wish for YOU to be in our position.
General Lee
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I think a deal with Dalpa is close, and it may be part of a big plan to wrap this up---as long as the creditors are a part of this. If they don't want to be, then they will lose more in court. I think (and hope) that we have a pilot deal prior to any possible filing. Hopefully they won't have to do that, though......
Bye Bye--General Lee
Bye Bye--General Lee
My source is pretty well connected at the DAL GO. He could be wrong, but the whole GO was buzzing with activity today. Management personnel were flying in from all around the country (the limos were busy picking them up and bringing them to the GO all day). He told me that the BK filing will come in the next few days. Possibly tonight after the markets close.
Of course it could be wrong, and I look forward to being spanked by your wife either way.
Oh, and it is not something that I wish on anybody. I ahve been through the whole BK and furlough thing myself. It is, however, something that will very likely happen.
I someone is stupid enough to buy or sell stock based on something posted on an aviation rumor board, then they deserve what they get.
As for the SEC, who cares, they have bigger fish to fry than old sleepy.
Of course it could be wrong, and I look forward to being spanked by your wife either way.
Oh, and it is not something that I wish on anybody. I ahve been through the whole BK and furlough thing myself. It is, however, something that will very likely happen.
I someone is stupid enough to buy or sell stock based on something posted on an aviation rumor board, then they deserve what they get.
As for the SEC, who cares, they have bigger fish to fry than old sleepy.
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ultrarunner
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sleepy said:
They are really NOT going to close DFW. And they are going to announce an order for 1000 7E7's.
THAT'S MY BET.
Now, if you had posted that senior management had recently been advised that they are currently restricted from making any stock trade transactions...THAT would have been good. But I don't know anything about that.
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michael707767
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General Lee
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wood pecker
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