Dade-Collier Training and Transition Airport

[Groundpounder]

Anyone know what goes on at this airport?

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KTNT

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Was used by airlines for training when they actually used real airplanes instead of the box.

 

[Pugh]

Cool, I've wondered what went on at that aiport. I guess not many use it now since it's closed to the public.

 

[CUEBOAT]

Its open to the public, i used the ils a few times, a lot of sofla charter companies do checkrides there in the real deal no box.

Edit* i think you need to pay a fee to use, we had to tell unicom an acess code.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I remember EAL wrecked a DC-9 out there. The guy in the tower didn't know it'd happened until the crew (trainees and a check airman) hiked back and rang his doorbell.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

the box?

Simulator.

 

[CUEBOAT]

I remember EAL wrecked a DC-9 out there. The guy in the tower didn't know it'd happened until the crew (trainees and a check airman) hiked back and rang his doorbell.

I assuming no one died, so I found this funny, how coud you miss a DC-9 especially when its crashing when its your job to "control" airplanes

 

[Typhoon1244]

I assuming no one died, so I found this funny, how coud you miss a DC-9 especially when its crashing when its your job to "control" airplanes

No, nobody got anything worse then scraped and bruised. As to how he missed it, TNT was (I'm told) one of those towers where you sat back in a chair with the newspaper open chanting "cleared for the option...cleared for the option...cleared for the option...."

 

[Typhoon1244]

Here's the airplane in question.

Here's what the NTSB had on it.

 

[Headwind]

I have used T & T in the past. If I remember correct, theres someone in the tower 24/7 and you need a number code to land. It's in the middle of nothimg. At night, other than the runway lights, all you see out the windshield is the black of night.
I was told that it was built to replace Miami International, but environmentalist got involved and it became a training airport.

HEADWIND

 

[RedDogC130]

thought it was the L-1011 that crashed out there.

 

[Typhoon1244]

thought it was the L-1011 that crashed out there.

That was earlier, December of '72...and not at TNT.

The DC-9 accident was non-fatal.

 

[aeronautic1]

Not much use

after the manned the tower. When I trained there, there was no one there. Especially at night except maybe a bail run or two.

type-o

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas...

Yup, TNT is still out there. It's "sort" of pay to play access by Dade county, but if you are below 12,500#, its free. You call the county and you tell them you want to use it, and you get an access code (the codes used to be good for a year). It's to F and gone out in the middle of the Everglades.

When you fly in, you call them up and give them the code. It was 24/7, but I think budget cuts forced them to close it up times, and I've heard that they are now kind of funny about letting the average joe use it.

You can read more about TNT here: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KTNT

And some of the history here: http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/FL/Airfields_FL_Miami_N.htm#dade

Dade County is funny in that they want open airports "attended" by county personel whenever they are "open". This was done back in the 80's to stem the flow of "night cargo".

The only unattended paved airport in Dade is X46, or Opa Locka West. This wierd little field is way, way out in the boonies (or used to be, anyway), and was used for strictly GA training back in the heyday of Burnside-Ott and the mass training of the 60s/70s. There is no ground access at all to the airport unless you call the county and they come unlock all the gates. It was marked closed for a while, but I guess it's back open again. I never personaly flew into there, but from what I heard, the runways aren't the best and the the local vegitation makes it interesting getting in and out.

More on X46: http://www.airnav.com/airport/X46

Nu

 

[PCL_128]

Ahhh, good old Opa Locka West. I used to take my Comm students there to practice short field and cross-wind landings. The trees are really close to the runway so they get the winds swirling around real good. Much fun to be had. You just have to make sure that the local kids don't have their 4-wheelers out on the runway.

As for TNT, it doesn't really have a tower per se. When we went out there for training and checkrides 4-5 years ago it was basically just a guy in a shack (or sometimes just in his pickup truck) with a transceiver. Give him the code and he'll tell you to practice whatever you need. I think he writes down your tail number to make sure you really did call for approval from the county. That place really messes you up at night. It's out in the middle of the everglades and there's no lights to be seen for miles. Really screws up your depth perception when you're trying to land. Have fun.

 

[PaulThomas]

I was told that it was built to replace Miami International, but environmentalist got involved and it became a training airport.

HEADWIND

That's the story I've been told too. I've asked about landing there, but everyone told me it's too much of a pain. It is still used for trainning by "the big boys".

 

[Wrenchnfly]

I have used the airport for practice approaches. The FAA inspector had me use it for my 135 checkride. I have heard bits and pieces of its "history" and now its kind of being "confirmed" here. I have been told it was to replace MIA. It is interesting to have a huge runway in the middle of the swamp.

 

[dsee8driver]

Ahhh

Good ol' Opa Locka west... I did lotsa practise approaches/touch and goes and night landings there. Some good 'ol memory. They also filmed a flick there with Wesley Snipes. I think it was Passenger 57. They built a whole city there for that.

I also did my Fine Air bounces over at TNT. Nice airport to practise at too.

 

[Blue]

Burnside-Ott???

What's Burnside-Ott, and why did it encourage GA flying?

 

[UM#1]

I grew up in Miami in the 80's and my dad used to have a C152 out of OPF. I used to go out to ole' Opa Locka West with him all the time. I remember on the north end in the "turn-about" there used to be a C46 or DC3 that had crashed and it sat parked (sort of) in that turnabout for years. I used to crawl around all over it and I'll never forget all the bullet holes in it from the "locals" using it as target practice...
Also for those of your around Miami back in those days, remember all the confiscated airplanes parked at Tamiami and Homestead General? Man everything from a cub to a DC7 it was there with those FBI/FAA stickers on the doors just rotting away. Drug flights that got caught...

 

[C601]

@ Opa Locka West i believe they have fly in's every so often for small and homebuilt aircraft. Interesting place, especially those pine trees and either side of the runway

 

[T-Gates]

I have been told it was to replace MIA. It is interesting to have a huge runway in the middle of the swamp.

Yeah, the story I heard is that is was built in anticipation of the SST (Supersonic Transport) back in the 60's, this way the noise wouldn't affect the city. But I guess the enviromentalists freaked out on the possible implications on the Everglades. And, the SST never really took off.....

 

[mgg20]

T-Gates, I heard the same story from a professor of mine who used to work for Eastern. Since they didn't want the noise from the SST over the city, they raced to build it so Miami could be the next global gateway. Then it fizzled. No wonder Dade county is broke.

 

[NuGuy]

Yeah, the story I heard is that is was built in anticipation of the SST (Supersonic Transport) back in the 60's, this way the noise wouldn't affect the city. But I guess the enviromentalists freaked out on the possible implications on the Everglades. And, the SST never really took off.....

T-Gates,

Yea, thats the story. If you go to the link on my last post, they have a little history about it.

The enviromentalists freaked when they started the plan, but by the time they cancelled the project (when the B-2707 was cancelled), they already had the one runway built. Problem was, they thought, is that they would have done even more envriomental damage to demolish what was already there, so they left it.

Nu

 

[NuGuy]

What's Burnside-Ott, and why did it encourage GA flying?

Burnside-Ott was a giant flight school that was based out of Opa Locka (OPF), and is still regarded in the South Florida lore with hushed tones. It was started, naturally, by Burnside and the Ott brothers.

Seriously, it was HUGE. At one point, they had over 150 airplanes, plus helicopters, gliders and other assorted aircraft. They did a massive amount of training, and did quite a bit for the ex-military guys under the old GI Bill.

Unlike the very narrow focus of today's biggest schools, B-O exsisted at a time where there wasn't any REAL track for going to the majors if you were a civilian (except for that brief period in the 60s).

If you had the time (and we're talking lots of it...on the order of 8000+ hours), you might be able to get on at what was then the Local Service carriers, which at the time were the likes of Southern, Piedmont, Allegheny, North Central and so on. The majors didn't hire civilian, period.

There were no "regional" airlines, as they exist today. A largish "Scheduled Air Taxi" operator might look like what Cape Air is today.

Since that was the industry at the time, B-O's programs were much broader then the current school's simply because they were training you for aviation in general, and not to be an RJ FO. They had programs for every concievable type of operation from aerial application to helicopters, and the students where exposed to quite a bit of variety.

But times change...from what I understand, the GI Bill came to an end and the recession of the late 70's hit and the core of what B-O did dried up. The partners squabbled, and so ended another aviation legend. Burnside-Ott entered the history books, and they would be joined by many others. I remember in the early 90's, and outfit in Tennessee called Bolivar was gangbusters, with lots of planes and almost overnight they went bust....go figure...

Nu

 

[TurboS7]

TNT was built so that the alligators and rattlesnakes would have a place to sun themselves in the winter and keep warm. The reason you have to have a permit to land is to give time for the ground personel to chase all the reptiles off the runway prior to you landing.

 

[dsee8driver]

No wonder Dade county is broke.

Dade County is broke because of the crooked politicians here. But that's for another thread.