DA-50 upgrades

[G21Agoose]

We operate a da-50 in Europe and are looking to upgrade to the TFE731-4 or purchase a 50EX. The 50EX is still expensive and I have looked at the -4 numbers and they are pretty impressive. Any and all info on costs, real- world performance differences, mx differences and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[con-pilot]

Let me ask you this, are you going to convert your current 50 or buy a different used 50? Also, did you buy your current 50 new?

I did a lot of research into the options you are asking about when we bought a new 50EX. Performance wise the two aircraft are the same, cost of operations will be the same.

If you go with the full conversion, the -40 engines and Collins Pro-line 21 upgrade cockpit package the modified 50 will have a slight edge avionics wise. However, you still have an old airframe, old wiring, old hydraulic lines, etc. Because of the later we chose to go with a new 50EX.

Sorry to say I have forgotten the down time for the conversion, but it is a rather long time. So if you are going to convert your present A/C you need to figure out what you are going to do about a replacement A/C during the downtime.

You also need to add in the cost of a new interior and paint (if needed, usually is) into the price and downtime for the conversion. However, if you by a used 50EX you may need to replace the interior and repaint that aircraft as well, so that cost would be the same either way you go.

As you are probably aware the Falcon 50EX is now out of production, however, Dassault still have two 50EX's not sold. At least they did at the time of the NBAA convention. I would definitely contact Dassault and see if they would make you a deal, they would like to move theses airplanes.

From my research the cost difference is not that much, especially if you by a late model used 50 to modify.

As of last month, well September, there are 4 used 50EXs on the market. Highest time 4,800 hours lowest 2,400 hours.

If you need any more information please PM me at your convenience.

 

[HMR]

Con-Pilot- Good questions. Are there any 50's flying with the -4 yet? I'd also like to see the "real world" #'s. I've met 2 pilots who've done the -40 upgrade and they're very happy with it.

We recently did the PL21 upgrade to our 50. It was in the shop for just under 4 months.

FWIW- I think a 50EX with ProLine 4 and FMS 6000's would be hard to beat.

 

[falconpilot]

I flew the 50EX and currently fly a 50 with 3d engines... They 50EX is an awesome machine... But you can almost buy a 900 or even a GIV for what one cost.. FWIW... But I loved the 50EX. Great airplane, great avionics, and great upgraded systems... You get 8 degrees more rudder travel with the EX which comes in handy.. And the BASC (Bleed Air System Computer) does a great job... You can have all the anti ice on and still climb great. If you do the upgrade your still left with an old airframe... Find a 50EX or a 900.

 

[G21Agoose]

Thank you all for your replies. Con-pilot your reply was detailed and informative. In answer to your questions we did not buy the a/c new but due to the downtime would look to buy either a 50EX or converted 50. The price differential is great 5-6 million but I cannot find the real world numbers on the 40 or dash 4 and so it is tough to make any recommendations. Although the airframe age is not an issue mx costs are spiralling and I wonder of the resale value of the converted a/c. Thanks for the unsold 50EX info-I will follow up on that. Is there going to be a 50EX replacement? Such a unique and wonderful machine.
FalconPilot, you are correct with your pricing comparisons but due to our unique mission profiles the gIV's don't work for us (weight) and the low time 900b's are still well over 20 MM.
Thanks all.
Goose.

 

[con-pilot]

Is there going to be a 50EX replacement? Such a unique and wonderful machine.

I have asked the folks at Dassault that question until they are tired of seeing me. Unless they really want to keep it a big secret the answer is no.

Shame really, I flew the 900EX and the 50EX and the 50 was just more fun. However, the 900EX's range is really nice over the Pacific.

Anyway, sad to see the 50 series go away.

Good luck, keep us informed which way you chose to go.

 

[con-pilot]

I wonder of the resale value of the converted a/c.

Sorry G21Agoose but I missed that question.

In my experience a modified aircraft never retains the resale value of a production aircraft when the aircraft is modified to perform to the standards of a newer improved production aircraft.

Of course the exception to this, and there are always exceptions, is the Falcon 20 TFE conversion, however, there was no production equivalent to TFE Falcon 20.

One always wonders why Dassault never built a TFE Falcon 20 instead of the Falcon 200.

So the 50 joins the Falcon 10/100 and Falcon 20/200 on the out of production list.

Still damn good airplanes.

 

[G21Agoose]

I have asked the folks at Dassault that question until they are tired of seeing me. Unless they really want to keep it a big secret the answer is no.

Shame really, I flew the 900EX and the 50EX and the 50 was just more fun. However, the 900EX's range is really nice over the Pacific.

Anyway, sad to see the 50 series go away.

Good luck, keep us informed which way you chose to go.

Thanks Con-Pilot for your great input. For JAR-OPS I cannot think of a better a/c than the 50. We can get into LCY (London City) and LFTZ (St Tropez) and fly long international routes unlike any aircraft. It is unique and a joy to fly. I have never flown the 2000DX/EX but it cannot replace the BFL's and mission flexibility of the 50. Keep begging at the doors of Dassault-there are a lot of pilots/operators who would sign a petition. I still don't understand Dassaults decision??????

Re the 20-5 it was is a great plane but IMO a lot of operators worry about airframe age (there are many 1960's 20's) and the mx costs are a factor.
The 200 was a mistake- the idea was to make a 50 for those without the need of three engines, short-field performance or range. Those are the only things they got right. WHY?