D-RVSM altitudes

[ultrarunner]

So is this what we're looking at next month:

Odd east, even west

290
300
310
320
330
340
350
360
370
380
390
400
410

 

[Flying Illini]

I believe so

 

[minitour]

Well, I guess that's a hell of a lot easier to remember than 040 increments starting at FL290 or 310 depending on direction....sheesh

The same from MEA to FL410...I think I can handle that...

-mini

 

[User546]

So what about above FL410?

 

[Daveman]

So what about above FL410?

Same as it ever was.... ( as I karate chop my left forearm)
280 is gonna be stuffed, my opinion. Although, is this really going to be in effect?

 

[ultrarunner]

This will actually be nice being able to use 400 headed west, as opposed to 390. Some days it'll mean making it NS. Suweeeeet!

 

[minitour]

So what about above FL410?

Why, you upgrading to the space shuttle? Do people really fly at or above FL410? That's high!

 

[ATCER]

So is this what we're looking at next month:

Odd east, even west

290
300
310
320
330
340
350
360
370
380
390
400
410

Yup... that is correct

Why, you upgrading to the space shuttle? Do people really fly at or above FL410? That's high!

You would be surprised... in a typical 8 hour shift I'll work 4-6 A/C @ FL430, about 4 or 5 times a week I'll work A/C at FL450 or FL470, with the holidays you see more above FL410 due to the increased traffic.

 

[minitour]

You would be surprised... in a typical 8 hour shift I'll work 4-6 A/C @ FL430, about 4 or 5 times a week I'll work A/C at FL450 or FL470, with the holidays you see more above FL410 due to the increased traffic.

Awesome...learn something new every day...at that point, are you really making them stick to the east west thing or do you just assign them what they want/need/request if able?

-mini

 

[ultrarunner]

It's been my experience in the last year or so, since flying something that can operate up that high, is that you can pretty much go where you want on a long leg. Especially above 430.

Granted, there are more planes up there than there used to be years ago, but it still is not many planes.

 

[2000flyer]

Why, you upgrading to the space shuttle? Do people really fly at or above FL410? That's high!

On the Ultra and Falcon, trips over about 1+30 we'll start at FL410 or 430, lower if the winds are more favorable. You'd be surprised at the fuel flow difference between FL350 and FL430!

As for getting direct anywhere....hardly. Out west (less traffic?) the folks at ARTCC are more "giving" when it comes to direct routings. I've always wondered how, say, Seattle center will give me direct Atlanta, but Atlanta will never give me direct Seattle

2000Flyer

 

[Luftpost]

Why, you upgrading to the space shuttle? Do people really fly at or above FL410? That's high!

I have heard aircraft descend from upwards of FL510! If memory serves me correctly it was a NASA flight.

 

[Daveman]

Seattle center will give me direct Atlanta,
2000Flyer

Ah 2000flyer, ready to copy. You're now cleared direct Rome and the Rome Two arrival Atlanta.

 

[2000flyer]

Ah 2000flyer, ready to copy. You're now cleared direct Rome and the Rome Two arrival Atlanta.

Ain't that the truth!!! But you forgot, "hold at Rome as published, expect further clearance tomorrow!"

 

[Guitar Guy]

Why, you upgrading to the space shuttle? Do people really fly at or above FL410? That's high!

Quite a lot of business jets are certified for flight above FL410 and will do so to avoid traffic, winds, rough rides, etc. The Citation Ultra/Encore is certified to FL450 and I believe the Citation X and some Lears are certified to FL510.

 

[mzaharis]

I have heard aircraft descend from upwards of FL510! If memory serves me correctly it was a NASA flight.

What's the old joke? U-2 pilot (either military, CIA, or NASA) requests FL600. Incredulous controller, not knowing what type of aircraft he's dealing with, asks sarcastically if he can get up to FL 600. Pilot replies, "You don't understand. I'm not trying to get up to FL 600, I'm trying to get DOWN to FL 600!"

Seriously, can a non-RVSM aircraft stay under FL290 until it can climb to FL430, then climb directly to FL430? Or does even climbing through RVSM airspace require you to be RVSM-certified?

 

[ultrarunner]

Seriously, can a non-RVSM aircraft stay under FL290 until it can climb to FL430, then climb directly to FL430? Or does even climbing through RVSM airspace require you to be RVSM-certified?

Sure it can. It does NOT need to be RVSM capable in order to climb or decent through RVSM airspace.

Weather or not traffic and/or ATC workload will permit someone to be able to climb unrestricted for 14000 feet (yea, right) is a completely different matter. If it were me, I sure wouldn't count on it, especailly in congested airspace, and I would expect ATC personel to NOT go out of their way to make it happen ('cept for some Mil. OPS and Life Gurard).

 

[User546]

Why, you upgrading to the space shuttle? Do people really fly at or above FL410? That's high!

We fly up at FL410 almost every trip, especially if we're going to be up there more then a couple hours. Aircraft's certified to FL450.

 

[banned username 2]

Why, you upgrading to the space shuttle? Do people really fly at or above FL410? That's high!

I am almost always at FL410 or FL430 (even FL450)... Usually smooth, less traffic (read direct routing) and more efficient!

ultrarunner][/b]So is this what we're looking at next month:

Odd east, even west

290
300
310
320
330
340
350
360
370
380
390
400
410

Yup... thats it, and to expand further for the other poster asking...

FL280 W
FL290 E
FL300 W
FL310 E (used to be W)
FL320 W
FL330 E
FL340 W
FL350 E (Used to be W)
FL360 W
FL370 E
FL380 W
FL390 E (Used to be W)
FL400 W
FL410 E
FL430 W
FL450 E
FL470 W
FL490 E
FL510 W

 

[banned username 2]

Quite a lot of business jets are certified for flight above FL410 and will do so to avoid traffic, winds, rough rides, etc. The Citation Ultra/Encore is certified to FL450 and I believe the Citation X and some Lears are certified to FL510.

Falcon 2000 Certified to FL470
Falcon 50EX Certified to FL490
Falcon 900EX Certified to FL510

Gulfstream IV Certified to FL450
Gulfstream V Certified to FL510

Global Express Certified to FL510

Lear 31 Certified to FL510
Lear 60 Certified to FL510

 

[HMR]

As for getting direct anywhere....hardly. Out west (less traffic?) the folks at ARTCC are more "giving" when it comes to direct routings. I've always wondered how, say, Seattle center will give me direct Atlanta, but Atlanta will never give me direct Seattle

2000Flyer

Good point. I used to fly premie babies to KSJC for an air-ambulence operator. One time I was holding short at Shreveport, LA and copying down my third or so re-route. The nurses in back were working harder than usual trying to stabalize this tiny little baby. One of them yelled "this kid's dying we gotta go now!" I relayed the message to the tower. A minute later we were cleared for takeoff with instructions to "turn left direct San Jose". We literally flew straight the whole way. I think we flew right over Edward's AFB. I had never seen anything like it even on other LifeFlights.

PS- I checked a few weeks later and the baby was doing fine. Thanks ATC.

 

[mmmdonut]

Falcon 2000 Certified to FL470
Falcon 50EX Certified to FL490
Falcon 900EX Certified to FL510

Gulfstream IV Certified to FL450
Gulfstream V Certified to FL510

Global Express Certified to FL510

Lear 31 Certified to FL510
Lear 60 Certified to FL510

But... But... What about the LEGACY??!?!??

 

[banned username 2]

But... But... What about the LEGACY??!?!??

The WSofD is certified to FL390... but wait! Once the new software comes it will be certified for sub-orbital flight!

 

[mmmdonut]

Is it now officially being referred to as the WSofD?? Does that also include the EMB145?

Bummer!

 

[banned username 2]

Is it now officially being referred to as the WSofD?? Does that also include the EMB145?

Bummer!

Yes, that is the new, official FAA & ICAO Designation, in Flight Plan Block #3 please place WSofD for aircraft type... ICAO would just be WSOD...

 

[HueyPilot]

Most of the newer Lears are certified to FL510. Older Lears, including the 35 I flew (C-21 in military-speak) was certified to 450.

I went to 410 often on long-range flights. Much of the flying I did was in the eastern US, so the legs weren't quite as long and the jet flew better down in the 30s. But when we went west coast or had to fly more than a 2 hour leg, it paid off to get to 410. Now, we rarely went OVER 410, mostly due to O2 requirements (USAF required one pilot to be on O2 above 410).

I went to 450 a few times, and all those times were for weather avoidance. It's easier to go around the tops of storms than to go around an entire line...but you have to use a bit of judgement and figure out if you'll clear the storms by a reasonable margin.

Main reason why I didn't go to 450 much more often aside from the O2 requirement was the airplane didn't like being at 450 much...it was a handful up there. And if you were heavy and the temp was ISA+ anything, forget 450.

 

[ATCER]

As for getting direct anywhere....hardly. Out west (less traffic?) the folks at ARTCC are more "giving" when it comes to direct routings. I've always wondered how, say, Seattle center will give me direct Atlanta, but Atlanta will never give me direct Seattle

2000Flyer

The East cost centers have a bit of a different philosophy... with the traffic flows and sector layouts directs are not something that is easily done. Giving someone direct has A/C cutting sector boundries, warning areas, etc. It's a less a personal thing and more a procedure thing.

Sure it can. It does NOT need to be RVSM capable in order to climb or decent through RVSM airspace.

Weather or not traffic and/or ATC workload will permit someone to be able to climb unrestricted for 14000 feet (yea, right) is a completely different matter. If it were me, I sure wouldn't count on it, especailly in congested airspace, and I would expect ATC personel to NOT go out of their way to make it happen ('cept for some Mil. OPS and Life Gurard).

This is correct... depending on workload we try to. In Oceanic (non-radar) we have enough trouble climbing someone 1 or 2 thousand feet, so going 14K is not common. We try and work things out for Lifegurds... I'll often give a life guard FL400 or FL 410 if they unable FL430... I just use 2000' around him.

Good point. I used to fly premie babies to KSJC for an air-ambulence operator. One time I was holding short at Shreveport, LA and copying down my third or so re-route. The nurses in back were working harder than usual trying to stabalize this tiny little baby. One of them yelled "this kid's dying we gotta go now!" I relayed the message to the tower. A minute later we were cleared for takeoff with instructions to "turn left direct San Jose". We literally flew straight the whole way. I think we flew right over Edward's AFB. I had never seen anything like it even on other LifeFlights.

PS- I checked a few weeks later and the baby was doing fine. Thanks ATC.

99% of controllers work things out for lifeguard flights... we have some bozo's who don't help out much but that is very rare... just request what you need and we'll try and work it out. For the non-RVSM lifeguards we tend to get the routing first (direct) then work out the altitude later... the pilots all seem to prefer to sacrifice altitude for routing.

Falcon 2000 Certified to FL470
Falcon 50EX Certified to FL490
Falcon 900EX Certified to FL510

Gulfstream IV Certified to FL450
Gulfstream V Certified to FL510

Global Express Certified to FL510

Lear 31 Certified to FL510
Lear 60 Certified to FL510

FL450 is becoming more common... I see a FL470 from time to time, and maybe once or twice a year I'll work a FL490 or FL510. Last week I worked a Lear 60 (That or a Citation 750, I forget) from TNCM to KTEB, he was FL470 @ M090 ... that was impressive... he got DIRECT ... LOL