Currency question

[ILOVEBEER]

I need some help settling a debate with a co-worker.

Hypothetical:

I have a PIC type in a 604 and fly it for X amount of years. I then get a new job flying a 601 or whatever (different types). X years later, I want to go back to the 604.

Is there a reg that states that if I am out of currency for X years that I have to attend another full blown initial?... or am I good to go to attend a regular recurrent?

Clear as mud?


Thanks

 

[Basil]

I've never seen a reg that required another Initial. If someone wants a typed pilot to attend another Initial after being out of a specific type for some length of time, it is probably a requirement of the training provider, insurance policy or company policy.

 

[ekuflyer]

61.58 Pilot-in-command proficiency check: Operation of aircraft requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, to serve as pilot in command of an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember, a person must—
(1) Within the preceding 12 calendar months, complete a pilot-in-command proficiency check in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember; and
(2) Within the preceding 24 calendar months, complete a pilot-in-command proficiency check in the particular type of aircraft in which that person will serve as pilot in command.
(b) This section does not apply to persons conducting operations under subpart K of part 91, part 121, 125, 133, 135, or 137 of this chapter, or persons maintaining continuing qualification under an Advanced Qualification program approved under subpart Y of part 121 of this chapter.
(c) The pilot-in-command proficiency check given in accordance with the provisions of subpart K of part 91, part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter may be used to satisfy the requirements of this section.
(d) The pilot-in-command proficiency check required by paragraph (a) of this section may be accomplished by satisfactory completion of one of the following:
(1) A pilot-in-command proficiency check conducted by a person authorized by the Administrator, consisting of the maneuvers and procedures required for a type rating, in an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember;
(2) The practical test required for a type rating, in an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember;
(3) The initial or periodic practical test required for the issuance of a pilot examiner or check airman designation, in an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember; or
(4) A military flight check required for a pilot in command with instrument privileges, in an aircraft that the military requires to be operated by more than one pilot flight crewmember.
(e) A check or test described in paragraphs (d)(1) through (d)(4) of this section may be accomplished in a flight simulator under part 142 of this chapter, subject to the following:
(1) Except as provided for in paragraphs (e)(2) and (e)(3) of this section, if an otherwise qualified and approved flight simulator used for a pilot-in-command proficiency check is not qualified and approved for a specific required maneuver—
(i) The training center must annotate, in the applicant's training record, the maneuver or maneuvers omitted; and
(ii) Prior to acting as pilot in command, the pilot must demonstrate proficiency in each omitted maneuver in an aircraft or flight simulator qualified and approved for each omitted maneuver.
(2) If the flight simulator used pursuant to paragraph (e) of this section is not qualified and approved for circling approaches—
(i) The applicant's record must include the statement, “Proficiency in circling approaches not demonstrated”; and
(ii) The applicant may not perform circling approaches as pilot in command when weather conditions are less than the basic VFR conditions described in §91.155 of this chapter, until proficiency in circling approaches has been successfully demonstrated in a flight simulator qualified and approved for circling approaches or in an aircraft to a person authorized by the Administrator to conduct the check required by this section.
(3) If the flight simulator used pursuant to paragraph (e) of this section is not qualified and approved for landings, the applicant must—
(i) Hold a type rating in the airplane represented by the simulator; and
(ii) Have completed within the preceding 90 days at least three takeoffs and three landings (one to a full stop) as the sole manipulator of the flight controls in the type airplane for which the pilot-in-command proficiency check is sought.
(f) For the purpose of meeting the pilot-in-command proficiency check requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command of a flight under day VFR conditions or day IFR conditions if no person or property is carried, other than as necessary to demonstrate compliance with this part.
(g) If a pilot takes the pilot-in-command proficiency check required by this section in the calendar month before or the calendar month after the month in which it is due, the pilot is considered to have taken it in the month in which it was due for the purpose of computing when the next pilot-in-command proficiency check is due.

 

[Iflewjetz]

No, you dont need to attend a new initial. Just a recurrent. Once typed, always typed.

 

[Sandhawk]

I have had several operators tell me that under their 135 certificate, they must send you to Initial Training if you have not flown / been current on that airplane for more than 3 years.

 

[Iflewjetz]

I dont know the 135 regs, but still dont see how you have to go to a new initial. I didnt fly the Excel for over 3 years and just went to a recurrent and it satisfied the regs...but it was part 91. FAA rule are like golf rules, we will never know or understand them all.

 

[Chairman]

The insruance companies always will be more restrictive than the FAR's

 

[ILOVEBEER]

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[pilotyip]

135/121 have regs that require an initial if you non-current for over 36 months. It is defined in the 8900

 

[ksu_aviator]

pilotyip is right...135 requires a new initial, but I think it has more to do with 135 than the airplane. For example, you fly the 604 for company X (a 135 operator) and go to company Y (a 91 operator) for 10 years and fly the 604. Company Y lays you off and Company X let's you come back. You still have to go through initial training even though you are current in the aircraft, unless you maintained 135 currency.

 

[TRBojet]

This happened to me. Flew a King Air 200 for a Part 135 company; 2 companies later after being hired to fly a King Air 300 (which is a different initial than the 200 AND requires a type), went back to school to help fill in with the new company's 200. Probably due to insurance, they had me attend a 7-day "requalification" course. I had never heard of one before. Halfway between a recurrent and an intitial, I guess. But that's for a non-typed airplane. I believe for typed airplanes, a recurrent would satisfy any FAR requirement.

 

[FO4life]

We have a guy who was out of hawkers for 6 years and our POI said it was ok to go to recurrent, so he did and we are 135.

 

[hawkerf]

I flew a Lear 60 for 3 years and left for another company. Went back to the old company after 5 years and the insurance company required that I go to a full initial again. The insurance companies say that after 60 months they want you to go back to initial, but it is not a reg. I am now going back to rec on a falcon 2000 that I last flew in dec of 2004. The insurance company said as long as I have been to sim training in the last 12 months their happy. It all depends on what mood the insurance company is in that day and how the policy is written.

 

[ruhroa]

just happened at a company i know of. pilot was typed in CL604. (part135) left the 604 about 5 years ago has been flying same company g4 g550. He had to go through an initial part135 cl604 course although he did not have to take the type ride. the only loop hole is you can go through a part 91 recurrent cl604 go fly the line at least enough to be current and qualified part 91. then you can go back and do a recurrent part 135 cl604 course.

 

[NCherches]

...Like mentioned earlier the Insurance company may want you to take a new initial class however I don't think I have really of of this happening. Make sure you feel comfortable after the short recurrent class though.

 

[PilotKitch]

With respect to Part 135 the training curriculum that must be completed is outlined in there Approved Training Program, some have the 36 month rule others do not.

 

[mike1mc]

With respect to Part 135 the training curriculum that must be completed is outlined in there Approved Training Program, some have the 36 month rule others do not.

All SHOULD have the same requirements as it is defined in the FAA 8900. Depending on how long you have been out of currency, you must attend a Recurrent, Requalification, or Initial training course. The training program will have the requirements for each. The requal is really just a glorified recurrent (1 extra sim session, etc.)

91 regs requires only a proficiency check as stated before. Insurance generally requires sim training every 12 months.

 

[PilotKitch]

All SHOULD have the same requirements as it is defined in the FAA 8900.

Yes they SHOULD have the same requirements but POI's are about as consistent as Border Agents when it comes to following the "guidance" set forth in documents like the 8900.