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ultrarunner said:
Isn't the company bound by 'status quo' as is the employee group during the negotiating period? A change in the schedule would seem to be in conflict of that.
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Sadly no. Status quo doesn't apply until a CBA is in place. So it will apply for the CA pilots second contract.

In the opinion of many, it's one of the glaring flaws in the RLA.
 
Praetorian said:
Sadly no. Status quo doesn't apply until a CBA is in place. So it will apply for the CA pilots second contract.
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So . . . you mean to say that the company can do whatever it wants whenever it wants and the pilots have to kiss Phildo's sac and thank him? (at least that's what Captain G4Dude would have you do) Wonder what would have happened if the freeloader dudes would have supported from the beginning. We may have had a contract by now. Thanks "fencesitters". Nuttin' like going from five-star to yellow-tie to scumbag charter.
 
The Dude Abides said:
So . . . you mean to say that the company can do whatever it wants whenever it wants and the pilots have to kiss Phildo's sac and thank him? (at least that's what Captain G4Dude would have you do) Wonder what would have happened if the freeloader dudes would have supported from the beginning. We may have had a contract by now. Thanks "fencesitters". Nuttin' like going from five-star to yellow-tie to scumbag charter.
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They can and will do whatever they want including shutting the company down which it appears is what they are doing. Having 100% migs would have no effect. They have a free reign. The only thing that can be done is a fly safe operation which is hard to do and in my opinion would only speed up the process they are into, shutting it down.
 
Sparse said:
They can and will do whatever they want including shutting the company down which it appears is what they are doing. Having 100% migs would have no effect. They have a free reign. The only thing that can be done is a fly safe operation which is hard to do and in my opinion would only speed up the process they are into, shutting it down.
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So we should carry broken items so that it's more convenient?
 
i think a union should hold the threat of shut down over a company. it sends a good message to stop being greedy and re-invest all your wealth back into the company, and that is how you insure long term survival. there are no bad companies, only bad management.

management needs to learn.
 
The Dude Abides said:
So we should carry broken items so that it's more convenient?
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Well yes, duh...

Haven't you read G4's concerns about pilots loosing their jobs unless we help management continue to endanger ourselves and our customers. We need to assist incompetence by quietly cooperating in the quest to squeeze ever more out of us. Only when we've become the bottom feeder that we always knew we could be, will we have achieved our true purpose; reducing competition so his own job is more secure...
 
OHGOON said:
Well yes, duh...

Haven't you read G4's concerns about pilots loosing their jobs unless we help management continue to endanger ourselves and our customers. We need to assist incompetence by quietly cooperating in the quest to squeeze ever more out of us. Only when we've become the bottom feeder that we always knew we could be, will we have achieved our true purpose; reducing competition so his own job is more secure...
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Not quite following the logic here. For you to keep your job, the company has to make a profit acceptable to the investors. Where in the world did I say you should endanger the customers and yourselves? I am just saying you might want to be careful how much pressure you put on your employer given how soft the economy is right now A fairly good job is a lot better than no job, it seems to me. If the union takes a hard line, the resulting shutdown will benefit my company, so go ahead, stir up the rabble. I will wave as I drive by the unemployment line, amazed at the seemingly intelligent pilots who caused their own unemployment. They won't even have Hostess Twinkies to snack on as they wait in line, because the unions shut down that company too.
 
CA is shutting down? management is all to blame, the pilots lived up to their end of the bargain, union or not. CA was seemingly a good company for a long while, turns out it was not. A lot of credit goes to the pilots who tried to fix their end of things while managements "best in the industry mantra" was costing them 40 million a year and and costing jobs.
 
Smooth Cruz said:
CA is shutting down? management is all to blame, the pilots lived up to their end of the bargain, union or not. CA was seemingly a good company for a long while, turns out it was not. A lot of credit goes to the pilots who tried to fix their end of things while managements "best in the industry mantra" was costing them 40 million a year and and costing jobs.
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You may be right, but unionizing a failing company seems like a BAD idea.
 
I agree, however the union was voted in during good times, all furloughed pilots were offered recall and we were told more airplanes were coming and cessna/textron were completely committed to CA, at least that is what management led us to believe.
 
Smooth Cruz said:
I agree, however the union was voted in during good times, all furloughed pilots were offered recall and we were told more airplanes were coming and cessna/textron were completely committed to CA, at least that is what management led us to believe.
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I think mgmt believed, and hoped, what they were saying was accurate. However, senior mgmt at Cessna was replaced and a recovery in the private aviation market didn't materialize. More senior executives (Textron) chose to go a different route.

Media outlets were surprised also with the course change.

The union activities played a limited, if any role, in the decision process.
 
G4dude said:
Where in the world did I say you should endanger the customers and yourselves?
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Counseling pilots to essentially capitulate to a management that has ulterior motives is encouraging an already volatile situation.

G4dude said:
If the union takes a hard line, the resulting shutdown will benefit my company, so go ahead, stir up the rabble.
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Again, it's obvious its only your own preconceived notions about unions that you bring to this conversation. Anyone who has actually been directly involved with the Union at CA knows different. There has been no hardline other than what management keeps cramming down our throats.

G4dude said:
I will wave as I drive by the unemployment line, amazed at the seemingly intelligent pilots who caused their own unemployment.
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Well looks like you are once again gloating and rooting for other people's misery. You truly are a sad example of what's wrong with our profession.

G4dude said:
They won't even have Hostess Twinkies to snack on as they wait in line, because the unions shut down that company too.
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and now you are just being stupid! This claim about Hostess and what caused their demise had nothing to do with their Unions. Have you ever examined your own preconceived assumptions?
 
The Dude Abides said:
So we should carry broken items so that it's more convenient?
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G4dude said:
Yes, it's called an MEL.
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Again, proving your own inferiority... It's obvious the problem is not with MEL-able items you dunce.

Keep talking out of your rear...it exposes you most effectively...
 
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gret said:
Hostess was shut down by the baker's union...the Teamsters even blame them for this fact.
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Yes if you only look at the end game and ignore the prior years of mismanagement and corruption of Hostess management you can make that statement. I don't think that the Teamsters would agree however that it was all the fault of the baker's union.

Secondly, who cares?
 
gunfyter said:
It was only a matter of time before Mayor Bloomberg shut them down ....
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Now that is a guy that needs to be run out of town.

Chuck E Cheese can't even use a pitcher to serve a birthday party their drinks! Domino's can't deliver 2 liter bottles of Pepsi/Coke. ...and he tried to hold a marathon 6 days after saying it would be good for the poor people on Staten Island!

You can't get much worse than Bloomberg unless you look at the guy at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Does anyone want to even venture a guess on the price tag for sending Michelle and the girls to Colorado to go skiing while he goes to Florida to play golf?
 
Recently met a former CA pilot just picked up by Spirit. He seemed quite happy. So, the LCCs are hiring with their growth and Spirit would be a top choice of mine with several new pilot bases (including LAS, DFW and soon ORD).

If you haven't already, I'd start applying to UAL, Spirit, JB, VA and Allegiant right now and to the other legacies as hiring opens up. I've heard XOJet is also hiring - does XOJet ever hire pilots from a competing fractionals?

Vote with your feet! Just don't expect schedules to be great at first... Good luck.
 
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johnsonrod said:
Recently met a former CA pilot just picked up by Spirit. He seemed quite happy. So, the LCCs are hiring with their growth and Spirit would be a top choice of mine with several new pilot bases (including LAS, DFW and soon ORD).

If you haven't already, I'd start applying to UAL, Spirit, JB, VA and Allegiant right now and to the other legacies as hiring opens up. I've heard XOJet is also hiring - does XOJet ever hire pilots from a competing fractionals?

Vote with your feet! Just don't expect schedules to be great at first... Good luck.
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Yea run from the fight? I have a few buds who did that during the fight at flops and now regret it.

My advice, for what it worth on this annomonous message board, if you get a good opportunity take it. Otherwise stay and fight. Hard.
 
I hope people who leave the fracs will post on this board, telling us where they went and how it is working out. Might be an enjoyable break from watching Obama drive us over the cliff. I am still guessing the fracs will lose almost all their FOs. Hope they get great jobs!
 

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