CS getting pay raise

[jonjuan]

From my owner yesterday:

"Wow, is this a new plane?" he asked as he eyed the interior.

"No, it has nearly 5,000 hours on it, actually. We just put a brand new interior on it to keep it looking sharp."

"Excellent."

And then another owner jumps on an Ultra and asks: "So, how old is THIS plane?"
"Well, it's part of our largest fleet, doesn't have TCAS up front, which pilots hate, and is 13 years of age, much older than our competitive flight options beechjets. Please don't tell me you mean your netjets sales guy told you these were NEW airplanes?" LOL

 

[xpdriver]

And then another owner jumps on an Ultra and asks: "So, how old is THIS plane?"
"Well, it's part of our largest fleet, doesn't have TCAS up front, which pilots hate, and is 13 years of age, much older than our competitive flight options beechjets. Please don't tell me you mean your netjets sales guy told you these were NEW airplanes?" LOL

Then another owner jumped on and said"I don't care how old my plane is, you guys are the best pilot in the biz" I feel competely safe and i"m glad you guys are the best paid....

 

[doylehargraves]

Has CS management come out and said anything to you guys about his yet??

 

[FoxJet]

CS proved to be a five star operation. With out a fight or union dues management just pushed the pay scale out to 15yrs and increased our 401k by 100%.

It might be hard to believe, but some people really know how to run a company.

Citation Shares? Who is that, are you guys something like Hop-a-Jet?
Do you think you could walk in my resume for me, 1108 hasn't done a thing for me. Well besides taking a time building job and turning it into one of the best careers in aviation!

 

[bailout]

I just don't get why everybody at NetJets hates CS so much. Every thread turns into a bashing thread. I'm relatively new to the fracs and I'm starting to think its NetJerks.

 

[Guitar rocker]

I just don't get why everybody at NetJets hates CS so much. Every thread turns into a bashing thread. I'm relatively new to the fracs and I'm starting to think its NetJerks.

Bla bla bla.

If your new then you dont understand the issue of the raise that CS got a few years back. Some think that they got their raise as a result of their mngmt saying, oh...we need to give you all a nice raise for the heck of it. Others think that they got their raise due to the NJA contract....and coincidentally, theirs mirrored that of NJA's. So, question is, will CS mngmt give their pilots a coincidental raise that matches this new pay scale at NJA prior to the vote? But then again, maybe CS will wait until after the fact and offer their pilots a raise which is much greater than NJA's. Should be interesting to see.

 

[Bravo F/O]

Only time will tell!.

 

[Stinkbug]

Some think that they got their raise as a result of their mngmt saying, oh...we need to give you all a nice raise for the heck of it. Others think that they got their raise due to the NJA contract....and coincidentally, theirs mirrored that of NJA's. So, question is, will CS mngmt give their pilots a coincidental raise that matches this new pay scale at NJA prior to the vote?

And the question on my mind is, who the F___ cares? Why do you guys get so wrapped around the axle on these threads about this subject? If CS gives its pilots a raise in response to Netjets', whether it's just a coincidence or clearly to avoid a union, shouldn't everyone be happy about it? Until CS begins blantantly lowering the bar (hasn't happened and I don't have reason to believe that it will), then I don't see what the fuss is all about. This thread is one of countless started on here with the express purpose of flaming...just pathetic. Fortunately I know better than to let one or two losers on an anonymous message board color my opinion of an entire pilot group.

 

[Guitar rocker]

And the question on my mind is, who the F___ cares? Why do you guys get so wrapped around the axle on these threads about this subject? If CS gives its pilots a raise in response to Netjets', whether it's just a coincidence or clearly to avoid a union, shouldn't everyone be happy about it? Until CS begins blantantly lowering the bar (hasn't happened and I don't have reason to believe that it will), then I don't see what the fuss is all about. This thread is one of countless started on here with the express purpose of flaming...just pathetic. Fortunately I know better than to let one or two losers on an anonymous message board color my opinion of an entire pilot group.

Did you happen to see what this thread was about? If yah dont like it, dont read it sport. Go read some other thread.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Well, no matter what is said and done, CitationShares is still the ELITE of the Frac industry. NJ is tyring to get the lead, but it won't happen because the MIGHTY 1107 will get in it's way. Oh sorry, I might be one short on the number, cause a lowly union doesn't add up anyway. Bravo F/U time for you to f/off, huh? Rocker, it's been awhile, but I can't agree with ya. We will never be as big as NJ, but we'll ALWAYS be better, Kid.

 

[johnsonrod]

Well, no matter what is said and done, CitationShares is still the ELITE of the Frac industry. NJ is tyring to get the lead, but it won't happen because the MIGHTY 1107 will get in it's way. Oh sorry, I might be one short on the number, cause a lowly union doesn't add up anyway. Bravo F/U time for you to f/off, huh? Rocker, it's been awhile, but I can't agree with ya. We will never be as big as NJ, but we'll ALWAYS be better, Kid.[/quote]

Ok, I'll take the bait...

Why, in your mind, will CS always be "better" than Netjets? Are we talking about a better quality product? Better customer service? Better employee pay? Better work conditions? Please elaborate.

What about pilot movement? Are you seeing Netjets pilots leaving for CS or vice versa? Will a highly-experienced potential newhire select CS over Netjets in most cases?

 

[fischman]

Well, no matter what is said and done, CitationShares is still the ELITE of the Frac industry. NJ is tyring to get the lead, but it won't happen because the MIGHTY 1107 will get in it's way. Oh sorry, I might be one short on the number, cause a lowly union doesn't add up anyway. Bravo F/U time for you to f/off, huh? Rocker, it's been awhile, but I can't agree with ya. We will never be as big as NJ, but we'll ALWAYS be better, Kid.[/quote]

Ok, I'll take the bait...

Why, in your mind, will CS always be "better" than Netjets? Are we talking about a better quality product? Better customer service? Better employee pay? Better work conditions? Please elaborate.

What about pilot movement? Are you seeing Netjets pilots leaving for CS or vice versa? Will a highly-experienced potential newhire select CS over Netjets in most cases?

There are always those that think the grass is greener on the other side.

Personally, I admire Bogey's devotion to CS and being at NJA, wish he was on "our side." (Even though I disagree with him )

 

[Stinkbug]

Did you happen to see what this thread was about? If yah dont like it, dont read it sport. Go read some other thread.

Excuse me, "sport", but the thread title refers to CS getting a pay raise. So not sure what your point is; of course I was curious to see what that was all about...and was disappointed to see that it was started for the sole purpose of flaming. I stand by what I said earlier...just pathetic. But I suppose some on here find that sort of thing entertaining.

 

[marqmarq]

Better??

"We will never be as big as NJ, but we'll ALWAYS be better..." Bogart

This thread was about CS pilots getting a raise. The argument is: Was CS giving a raise regardless of NJ's proposed pay raise? This is a silly question. Union scales have always set 'a standard'. The CS raise is not from some goodness in someone's heart, but for a pragmatic business decision. RTS is not agreeing to give us more money because he thinks NJ pilots are underpaid, its because he believes it will benefit NJ in the long run.

Now, the really silly part. Better?? Is the US better than Luxombourg (sp)?? Is a Goodyear Airship better than a helium ballon? Are the New England Patriots better than my state champion high school team? CS appears to be a good company... the pilots seem to like it, the pax seem to like it, it is a nice little company. NJ is a good company. The pilots seem to like it, the pax seem to like it. It is nice huge company. Competition? The two companies don't compete.

Hopefully, both companies continue to work hard and continue to improve. Niether should take anything for granted, or we'll all be applying to XOJets.

But better? How can you even measure something like that? Work hard, be proud. If you measure yourself, or your company, based on your company's propoganda or try to make yourself feel good by 'dissing' the competition, than you are end up being a naive, small human being....

 

[brokeflyer]

Well, no matter what is said and done, CitationShares is still the ELITE of the Frac industry. NJ is tyring to get the lead, but it won't happen because the MIGHTY 1107 will get in it's way. Oh sorry, I might be one short on the number, cause a lowly union doesn't add up anyway. Bravo F/U time for you to f/off, huh? Rocker, it's been awhile, but I can't agree with ya. We will never be as big as NJ, but we'll ALWAYS be better, Kid.

if you get a raise?......your welcome....glad we could help you guys out.

 

[C680]

And the question on my mind is, who the F___ cares? .

All those in the market for a job might care. Lets see, NJA for 55+ or CS for 40+. Which would you choose? I know there's more to the formula than pay. For instance who has the best bennies, QOL, unity amongst pilot group, better OT, work rules, and FA's?

Ask me the decision is easy. NJ wins. More so if new bases added at NJ.

But I ask this; who has the happier pilot group???

Read and weep.

 

[brokeflyer]

lol OWNED!!.....lol

 

[Stinkbug]

All those in the market for a job might care. Lets see, NJA for 55+ or CS for 40+. Which would you choose? I know there's more to the formula than pay. For instance who has the best bennies, QOL, unity amongst pilot group, better OT, work rules, and FA's?

Ask me the decision is easy. NJ wins. More so if new bases added at NJ.

But I ask this; who has the happier pilot group???

Read and weep.

You misunderstand me. Will anyone care about compensation, of course. I do, that's why I initally clicked on this thread in the first place. My point was why the continued discussion on here about what precipitates a raise at CS...whether it's in response to Netjets' negotiation victories or just because CS management feels like giving us a raise...I just don't see the reason to start a thread just so some Netjets guys can beat their chests all over again about CS getting a raise after their contract came out. We went through this a couple years ago already, when I had Netjets pilots darn near demanding that I thank them for my raise. I thought it was arrogant and inappropriate then and I still do.

Actually I agree with everything marqmarq said. I just find it interesting that with the exception of Humphreybogart, who never adds anything useful to these discussions, you rarely see a CS pilot coming out of the woodwork to bash Netjets. Yet it happens the other way around quite often. Why can't you guys just tend to your own business?

 

[Bravo F/O]

Well, no matter what is said and done, CitationShares is still the ELITE of the Frac industry. NJ is tyring to get the lead, but it won't happen because the MIGHTY 1107 will get in it's way. Oh sorry, I might be one short on the number, cause a lowly union doesn't add up anyway. Bravo F/U time for you to f/off, huh? Rocker, it's been awhile, but I can't agree with ya. We will never be as big as NJ, but we'll ALWAYS be better, Kid.

Humphreybogart,

It's Bravo F/O not Bravo F/U...lets get it right. All I said is "time will tell". Check your medical bennies...Anger Mgnt might be paid for.

 

[GerryG]

The Big Picture

I think that in the current pilot hiring market management at all three smaller fractional companies Flops, CS and Flex will need to make an important decision. They will need to respond to whats going on at NJ with a raise of their own pay scales (in the case of Flops a contract) or face the alternative.

The alternative is that they will loose a significant number of experienced pilots to NJ in the upcoming years. This will force them to lower their hiring minimums, dump their Type requirements in the right seat and start hiring warm bodies to fill the seats. Now before everyone starts crying, "the owners will never stand for it", or "those pilots will never make it at a fractional". Remember that history reflects that this has happened before. Management knows the Captains will step up and make it happen. They may not like it but they will.

So these are the two choices faced by the management teams at these three companies. They may all choose the latter and that will be catastrophic for our profession. NJ may be on top for now, but with three lower cost competitors nipping at their heals, how long will they stay there?

This my friends is why we all must Unionize. If this is allowed to happen - and I'm betting a contract at Flops will mitigate some of what I've described above - we are all, NJ pilots included in a lot of trouble in the future.

I think its time to start thinking of the fractional industry as a profession and act accordingly. The alternative is the evidential mongrelization of the Fractional pilot profession.