Crop dusting!

[RightPedal]

Yea, dying was too strong a word. But it is definitely shrinking. I agree that it will never go away completely, but as someone said in this thread and another one not too long ago, it is more of a 911 service than anything else.
I guess about the only steady spraying gigs are the boll-weevil stuff.

I had a gig lined up a couple of years ago in TN for a multi-plane operator. I really wanted to take it, but am glad I didn't as the airplanes sat for most of the season. Last season they sat as well. Hopefully this season will be better as my bros need to eat!

The bowlweevil eradication program is dead for the most part. It's all pretty well a maintanence program now, I'm told. I have a friend in south texas that flew over 900 hours last year.
The multi-plane operator you spoke of (G.Mc) is a relative of mine and taught me how to fly. Most of his pilots flew less than a hundred hours last season. I wish I could, but I can't live on that, so I'll keep my 8 to 5 job for now.
BWEP was the best thing going for a new pilot to get into the business. It's all light load, low volume work. It didn't pay very much either. I wish ag-aviation would become active again, it's about the only thing in life I want to do.

 

[bugchaser]

You will be a more effective ag-pilot if you think of yourself as a farm worker whose equipment happens to fly rather than as a pilot that does ag flying.

Thats the best statement in this thread. The flying is rewarding and you learn a lot about flying, but it is absolutely the hardest work that you will ever do in an airplane. There are many, many ways to kill yourself doing this type of work. You have to be on your game all day every day. After 12+ hrs the fun is long gone. Regarding the insurance, there is always a way around the requirements. It can be done if you really want to. Just make sure that you are comfortable in the airplane before starting to work it. You are an applicator at that point who happens to be in an airplane. Flying the airplane is something that you do while you do your primary job which is deliver the product to the right place.

As for the money, it can be pretty good in the right circumstances. Like the others said there is lots of consolidation going on. If you happen to be the guy left driving the big turbine, you can do pretty well. The last few years that I sprayed full time, I made over 100k each season. That was for about 8 months and about 800 hrs per year. But remember, no benifits, etc.

Having said all that, I really enjoyed most of my 6000+ hrs of ag flying.

 

[big_al]

I just want to give a shout-out to the low flying crop duster who plays chicken with the semis on route 5 around the bakersfield area in CA.

 

[ukaviator]

Seeing as the crop-dusting community is a close knit one, do you guys know James Stewart out of Arkansas?

Fly Safe you guys

 

[mcjohn]

Well then, does any one know J.D. Scarborough in S. Georgia? He's a good ol boy. Been doing it since he was like 16 or something. Pushing 60 by now. We have our family reunions at his house.

 

[Waldom]

One last comment, Mcjohn; Anyone who tells you that there is no difference between an upwind and a downwind turn would have a very brief career as a cropduster.

I will agree with the aerodynamic expert if the aircraft is flying within a block of stable air. When you come up out of a south Georgia cotton field in the process of starting your 90 downwind/270 upwind procedure turn though, the airplane isn't in that steady-state atmoshere.

You're coming off a swath run at ground level, often downwind of a parallel hedgerow where there isn't much air moving. As you come up over the treeline, rolling into your downwind turn, you are essentially flying into a windshear because the air above the trees is moving faster than the air in the field. The aircraft just picked up a sudden tailwind. This is a loss of airspeed, decreasing performance type wind shear.

Even a few knots of tailwind makes a difference because every turn you make all day every day is a maximum performance turn. This is necessitated by the fact that anytime the airplane is in the air with the spray valve closed, you are losing money. That's why at least at an airstrip dedicated to cropdusting you won't see anyone flying rectangular patterns.

All this is not meant to be dramatic, Mcjohn. I only mention it to try to keep you alive during your first few weeks. After that, the seat of your pants will be a finely tuned instrument.

 

[mcjohn]

Very interesting thanks. I recall a while back (here on FI) someone raised hell about a crop duster coming into an airport like that and said they should have their license yanked or something.
And then along comes the bug. Yeah that's right AvBug. I'm sure you can imagine his response. Had something to do with the Ag. pilot putting food on his table, etc.,etc.,etc......

 

[avbug]

Ag aviaton is more of a shrinking industry than a dying one, but dying is still a good discription. Between the massive chemigation and pervasive use of ground rigs, as well as many operators who reduced numbers of aircraft in favor of larger turbine equipment (and then went out of business because the turbine equipment was too expensive)...the opportunities are fewer and fewer.

Some year round seats exist, often in warmer climes doing year round crops such as citrus or rice...but it's mostly seasonal, and you never know what you're going to make from year to year. Some years are very lean, some are not so bad.

The claims of six digit figures are mostly exaggerated, especially today. Forestry work such as seeding and fertilization doesn't pay as good as you might think; many consider it a lot more work for a lot less pay, when you average out the hours. Most who do it get burned out on it fairly quickly.

As others have said, you can go to one of the schools (Bainbridge where you were looking, by chance?), but being employable is another matter. The magic number is a thousand hours of ag; until then you may find yourself paying the difference on insurance, working for lesser pay, etc. You may also find yourself relegated to equipment in which you're less likely to hurt yourself, such as an agtruck or an agcat.

A few states have some very tough tests, with high failure rates for your ag certs. Not rocket science, but don't enter the business thinking that it's an hours-building experience. It's not. Enter planning on knowing crops, insects, diseases, practices, etc. You're not so much a pilot that flies low as a farmer that works a little above the crop.

Plan on having a lot of difficulty getting life insurance in the future.

 

[mcjohn]

Good info. Thanks. Welcome back.

 

[agpilot34]

If you are looking at ag schools, by chance, stay away... I repeat, STAY AWAY from Sam Riggs' operation. That place will get you killed quickly. And that's not just some statement made out of the blue, I have first hand knowledge of his operation. I have heard the outfit in Bainbridge is decent, but dont expect ANY of the schools to be an instant in for a job. All they basically get you is some tailwheel time and a little experience spraying water. There's ALOT more to it than that.

 

[mcjohn]

The relative of mine I've mentioned is working on reopening a school in Dawson, GA. The name starts with the word International. That's all I remember about it. Supposedly it's going to start up in fall this year after the spraying season ends. They want to stay small and plan to train pilots from zero time. He said there may be opportunities for me to instruct there. Just one more reason I should pursue banner towing right now. There's a guy in Norther New Jersey that wants me to come up there and train to tow banners for him in a souped up Citabria for $1500. All the other banner jobs/training have fallen through so that's my only option left. He said I'd only log 200 hours during the summer. I can't make up my mind!!

 

[avbug]

Sam Riggs left the country about ten years ago...last I heard, he and his school was in Belieze...doing the same thing he always did. And apparently still not lacking for students willing to go all the way down there to get fleeced.

Ag schools pop up every year, and last a couple of years before going under. Many claim to have been around for eons, claim that they can get you hired...claim the moon. Usually a two place ag aircraft, and for a few thousand, will give you some valueable "turbine time." Tell you it's sure to get you hired.

It's not.

Ag work is great work; it's truly flying...but be careful of getting roped into the "dream" that it's something you can walk into after a short school. It's not. Most jobs are not entry level positions.

As for "training" to tow banners. It's not rocket science, either...in fact, it's sleeper type work. You pick up the banner, you tow it around at slow speeds, drop it, go get another. Don't get roped into paying someone to "train" you or "certify" you to fly banners. It's a ripoff. Much like many of the ag schools.

Be careful about promises regarding teaching at the ag school, too. If it's difficult to get into flying ag...what kind of experience do you suppose is appropriate to teach people to fly ag? If you survive your first thousand or two hours of ag, then consider looking into teaching it...but that's still entry level experience. Look at it this way; do you want to be taught to fly ag by someone with no experience? Take that question seriously, as though your life depends on it, because it really does.

Typically your first few years doing ag are spent loading and learning the business, eventually flying rinsate and big open fields, and eventually doing jobs on your own...but not really something you take 20 hours of training to do, and then go to work making six figures. Or anything remotely close to it. Not telling you not to pursue your dreams, but be careful doing it, and spending your hard earned cash for promises that traditionally don't add up.

 

[agpilot34]

Very well said, Avbug. Yup, ol' Sammy boy left the country and is in Belize now... still screwing anyone dumb enough to come down there. I made the mistake of going through his program back in '90. Pretty much a sham of an operation. Luckily I had a couple of friends in the business that set me straight, let me work for them on the ground a couple of seasons to learn the basics and get some Ag Cat time under my belt, and helped me get into my first entry level seat. He talks a good game about all he claims to have accomplished as an ag pilot, a military officer, etc. Mostly BS from one of the biggest a$$holes I have ever met in my life.

 

[727C47]

you guys rock, ag flying is true flying,more power to all of you ! Godspeed !

 

[mcjohn]

The instructing opportunity I was speaking of would only be for the ab-initio guys to get their private or commercial. Most likely all in taildraggers. That's where the banner towing (TW experience) comes into play.

To tell you the truth, I'm not going that route. I'd rather not relocate to south Georgia. I need a stable career with benefits. It's just that I have some family that does it so I thought I'd look into it.

All the info you folks have supplied is great. Thanks.

 

[NW_Pilot]

What do they say Airplanes Dont leave Tracks?

 

[avbug]

Ag airplanes do.

Tracks. Skips. Cuts. Gouges. Scars.

And big gaping holes where power lines used to be.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Ag airplanes do.

Tracks. Skips. Cuts. Gouges. Scars.

And big gaping holes where power lines used to be.

Hey, have not seen you arround much AV Bug? Where you been!!!!

 

[RightPedal]

And big gaping holes where friends used to be too.

 

[Ill Mitch]

And big gaping holes where friends used to be too.

Way too true.