CRJ 200 Freighter

[Aerosurfer]

The day I see a CRJ freighter with a Fedex purple is the day I get a sex change..............

You Heard it here first Folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Aerosurfer]

True but ATRs are becoming old, DHCs are good for 1 hour runs. Because of the nature of their business I don't think Fedex/Ups care about costs as long as they get a plane that does the job. If a company can charge 15 bucks to get a DVD 2nd day delivery, they'll never run out of money. This Swedish carrier that took order for the converted CRJs did it for the same reason airlines use regional carriers, for 500-1000 mile routes where larger aircraft use was not efficient for smaller amount of cargo.

UMMMM 'old' is a relative term. the oldest ATR is only approaching 20 years. And the company is very backlogged on new deliveries. Take a look at the rest of FedEx's fleet, (or UPS, ABEX, KHA or anyone else) and tell me who has a majority of their fleet younger than that?

 

[CL600Pilot]

The CRJ was orginally designed for FedEx as a cargo bird to replace the aging (at the time) Falcon 20's.


/quote]

You're mostly right.....The CRJ was not designed to be a freighter...it grew out of the Challenger which was deisgned as the replacement to the Falcons. Fedex went shopping for replacements for the DA-20 and signed an order for a bunch of Challenger 600's. Fedex was to be the launch customer (only customer at the time) and thus was heavily involved in the specification of the final design of the Challenger 600 (yes Bill Lear did sell the design to Canadair) and this is why the original 23 airplanes have upward opening doors (to accomodate freight loading) and all 600's have those *(@^%#*&ing Lycoming engines (also a Fedex specification) and one reason it's wider than most comparable size jets (to better accomodate pallets). Fedex backed out of the deal as you mentioned and the folks in Montreal salvaged the project as a corporate airplane. Over the next few years they made it better (engines and avionics and a few other things) and sold it as the 601 and eventually the 604. When the regional jet race started Bombardier really dropped the ball and in their race to be the first, they elected to do no real design work and only stretch the Challenger to make the CRJ.

That's the evolution of the Challenger line in a nutshell from the late '70's/early '80's to present day.

 

[honeycomb]

Thanks...

I have seen those upward folding doors before. Ugly....ugly door arrangement if you ask me. But, of course No one asked me...um.

As for the engines....yes that was a good move to the 34's.

I probably was told all of this before....correctly. I just have so much brain leakage and loss of information as I age that it has now become untrustworthy.

I cannot keep all of the Bill Lear history, and the tiny Lear facts, straight anymore...or like I could at one time.

 

[DGdaPilot]

True but ATRs are becoming old

How is that when they still make them fresh from the factory?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nevermind

 

[John Pennekamp]

Why will we see alot of CRJ's out in the desert?

At the risk that you're serious:

High seat mile costs, compared to -700 and -900 series

Low fuel efficiency per seat mile

Lack of quality construction. Look at how ratty the old Comair -100s are. This bird wasn't meant to last.

Generally poor performance, compared to newer models.

High maintenance costs.

Fly-I out of business, Skywest/ASA phasing in -700s and -705s, phasing out -200s.

The list goes on...

 

[Snakum]

The CRJ was not designed to be a freighter...it grew out of the Challenger which was deisgned as the replacement to the Falcons. Fedex went shopping for replacements for the DA-20 and signed an order for a bunch of Challenger 600's. Fedex was to be the launch customer (only customer at the time) and thus was heavily involved in the specification of the final design of the Challenger 600 (yes Bill Lear did sell the design to Canadair) and this is why the original 23 airplanes have upward opening doors (to accomodate freight loading) and all 600's have those *(@^%#*&ing Lycoming engines (also a Fedex specification) and one reason it's wider than most comparable size jets (to better accomodate pallets). Fedex backed out of the deal as you mentioned and the folks in Montreal salvaged the project as a corporate airplane. Over the next few years they made it better (engines and avionics and a few other things) and sold it as the 601 and eventually the 604. When the regional jet race started Bombardier really dropped the ball and in their race to be the first, they elected to do no real design work and only stretch the Challenger to make the CRJ.

This is correct. Also, FedEx started backing out because the aircraft wasn't going to meet performance goals. And this is directly from an Engineer at Bombardier whose first job out of school was working on some of the systems for the Challenger. He's still there ... so they must not have blamed him for the initially dismal performance.

 

[turbinej]

When I worked at Pinncale this was one of the proposels to the pilot group from management was when the airplanes were at idle during a highspeed to fly freight at night. Alpa reps at PNCL said no.

 

[FreightNazi]

I'm sure any UPS pilot would love to fly it with our single payscale!

 

[Sinca3]

Here's an article from todays ATW online:

Bombardier launched a new CRJ200PF (package freighter) conversion program that could extend the life of the 50-seaters as their appeal dims in favor of larger RJs. Sweden's West Air Europe is the launch customer and will acquire two previously owned CRJ200s for conversion to an all-cargo configuration. It now operates scheduled and charter package service with a fleet of 17 turboprops. "The CRJ200PF allows direct flights on longer, thin routes that are currently flown by larger aircraft," said Bombardier Regional Aircraft VP-Asset Management Rod Sheridan. "Since the introduction of the concept, considerable interest has been expressed by many prospective customers." In cargo configuration, the plane will have an estimated volume of 1,700 cu. ft. and 14,000 lb. Maximum takeoff weight will be about the same as the high-gross weight-version of the CRJ200 at 53,000 lb.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Actually, the 700/900 CRJ has the windows in the exact same place. They lowered the floor of the cabin so people could see out more easily.

Actually, that is not correct. The windows were raised 4.5 inches. The floor was lowered almost 1.5 inches and the ceiling insulation/panels redesigned to raise the ceiling about 1/2 inch. It used to all be on the crj 700 webpage. If you don't believe that the windows were raised, please look at the window placement relative to the flight deck windows on the 700, etc series vs. the 100/200 series. You will then see the SIGNIFICANT difference.

Btw, I DIDN'T stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I DO fly the 700...

cheers!

 

[threegreen]

Who cares whether or not they were raised. What is this, a.net?

 

[AerroMatt]

In a few years?

http://airliners.net/open.file/1003415/L/

These birds are for sale for around 7-8 million each. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see someone snatch them up and convert em to freight dawgs.

Imagine that... freight dawgs flying Barbie Jets! Quite a concept...

 

[Regul8r]

Will they be flying them half empty in the summer?

The first company to offer a "re-engining" kit will make alot of money. Just like what FedEx and UPS did to their 727s

 

[Regul8r]

Lack of quality construction. Look at how ratty the old Comair -100s are. This bird wasn't meant to last.

Isn't that the way ALL foreign planes are?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Isn't that the way ALL foreign planes are?

I would say the ATR fleet has held up pretty well. There are a bunch of vintage Brasilias still flying too. FedEx has some vintage A300s.

 

[JJET44]

The original design for the Lear (whatever it was called I forget now) was a mid tail High Speed Corporate Jet.

I think that the lear was called the "Lear Fan".

 

[Cardinal]

The low utlization frieghter fleet is typically geared toward minimizing capital costs, while variable costs, such as fuel, can be allowed to be on the high side. Think of FedEx prior to the 2nd day product. Most airframes sat around all day, flew one leg into the hub and one leg out, and then resumed sitting. alot of aircraft flew 2-5 hours a day, period. Thus a cheap payment more than offset a relatively thirsty 727, because the engines aren't turning much anyway.

The CRJ's problem today is it's high seat mile costs. Still paying two pilots and a flight attendant, locking gates and agents, and the jet is still thirstier than than the prop over the same distance, these became the undoing of Independence Air. It's still cheaper to run a 737 than 2 CRJs if you can fill the 737.

Yet due to the sudden lack of demand for the airframes, I'm betting they can be had fairly cheaply, and this would offset their higher cost per ton/mile. If FedEx or whoever needs to fill a niche it could work. If an aircraft flies faster it can leave the outstation later, arrive at the hub sooner, spend more time on the ground allowing a longer, bigger, more comprehensive sort to occur, and then leave later, arrive at the outstation earlier. This could be a real benefit in a finely tuned cargo network.