"crew support informer"

[pipejockey]

Signed 2007. Take the ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST Airlines contract and match it up against any other out there and I'd say it is a front runner. Certainly not in every department but when matched whole against whole, it is.

That's one of the many problems with this profession. We are comparing cow sh*t to horse sh*t and explaining why the horse sh*t is head and shoulders better than the cow sh*t because it smells better.

A SH*T contract is a SH*T contract folks, plain and simple. As long as we have regional FO's earning less than 50 grand a year and CA's earning less than 80 grand at a bare minimum, how can anyone defend these regional contracts. Raising FO pay by 10 grand a year at a 2,000 pilot workforce would cost the company about 10 million. Take the top two people at the major airlines in terms of compensation and I bet it's about 10 million total. Come on folks, the amount of money that would vastly improve the ability of a thousand regional FO's to support themselves, is freely given to the top two compensated people at a major airline is despicable.

And I went on airlinepilotcentral and saw that ASA's CA rates are on a par with Comairs concessionary rates, and less than Express Jets concessionary rates, and Eagles prison sentence of a 16 year contract where they only get 1.5% raises a year that doesn't even cover Cost of living increases from year to year. And you guys signed that contract in one of better environments this industry has seen since 2001. That is far from as you say...a front running contract. And spare me the QOL issues. They don't pay the bills. It's what management uses to silence the pilot groups and make them think they actually got something even though it cost management nothing.

Instead of bickering among ourselves, why don't we fight the real enemy! And that is the greedy SOB's in the executive and upper management offices.

 

[Tarzan]

Instead of bickering among ourselves, why don't we fight the real enemy! And that is the greedy SOB's in the executive and upper management offices.

Hmmm, some would say you are being greedy with huge raises that would pau plenty of pilots on the street. I guess it doesn't matter as long as you get your right?

 

[pipejockey]

Hmmm, some would say you are being greedy with huge raises that would pau plenty of pilots on the street. I guess it doesn't matter as long as you get your right?

10 grand a year for regional FO's are huge raises? And if it were not for our wages having been kept so unreasonably low the past 10 years, we wouldn't know need huge raises to get back what is ours! I love the pricks that go berserk over spreading the wealth. They claim no one is going to take what's theirs! Well pilots have had what's theirs, taken from them at will for the past 10 years. What people like you call huge raises, I call taking back what's OURS!!! These anti spread the wealth people have in fact been spreading the wealth for over 30 years. From the pockets of the middle class right into the pockets of the rich!! And all these piss willy pilots say thank you sir, may I have another. PATHETIC!!!

And on a side note, why is ALPA continually invoking the United strike of 1985 recently? What about the Comair strike in 2001 that was just as successful? They had finally put regional pilots on the path to fair wages, even dare I say livable wages for FO's as well. And we should providing more support and encouragement for the Spirit Pilots to have the bal*s to seek self help on the 12th of June. We all should be rushing to contribute to Spirit's strike fund as any betterment to their contract will spread to the rest of us.

 

[Tarzan]

10 grand a year for regional FO's are huge raises? And if it were not for our wages having been kept so unreasonably low the past 10 years, we wouldn't know need huge raises to get back what is ours! I love the pricks that go berserk over spreading the wealth. They claim no one is going to take what's theirs! Well pilots have had what's theirs, taken from them at will for the past 10 years. What people like you call huge raises, I call taking back what's OURS!!! These anti spread the wealth people have in fact been spreading the wealth for over 30 years. From the pockets of the middle class right into the pockets of the rich!! And all these piss willy pilots say thank you sir, may I have another. PATHETIC!!!

And on a side note, why is ALPA continually invoking the United strike of 1985 recently? What about the Comair strike in 2001 that was just as successful? They had finally put regional pilots on the path to fair wages, even dare I say livable wages for FO's as well. And we should providing more support and encouragement for the Spirit Pilots to have the bal*s to seek self help on the 12th of June. We all should be rushing to contribute to Spirit's strike fund as any betterment to their contract will spread to the rest of us.

Wealth is created, not distributed. How does a company take from the middle class and redistribute it? a couple of years ago, it was the lower class. Hog wash class warfare rhetoric that takes your eyes off what is really going on. Ours? Like in OUR job or OUR seat? I wish but you know as well as I do, none of it is OURS unfortunately. If we take to much, we end up with big targets on our backs. Comair wound up where with their strike? Nothing but a downward spiral. IN this contracted environment, we have to live within the current reality of where we as fee for departure pilots are.

I am all for the Spirit pilots conducted a successful strike and getting back to work. One the reps said they were about to have vote on allocating strike funds. I wholeheartedly agreed that this should be supported. This is the game and we play within the rules but the union leaders have a fiduciary responsibilty as well to keep their demands in line where the company can succeed and these guys can keep their jobs. I believe this to be the case here and support their move to strike 100%. I hope for a good outcome.

 

[pipejockey]

Wealth is created, not distributed. How does a company take from the middle class and redistribute it?

It is created? Well why can't we seem to create it? Executives and upper management seem to have no trouble at all creating wealth for themselves. They merely show up and run company after company into bankruptcy, allowing them to abrogate labor contracts all the while they take bonuses ever increasing their compensation packages. It's not just the airline industry, it is every industry! We are currently experiencing an economic system of capitalism that has run totally amok.

How does a company take from the middle class and redistribute it you ask? Just look at all the good labor jobs their were in the past. Garment and textile, auto, steel, meat packing, etc etc. Where have they gone? Overseas! The only advantage the middle class saw was lower prices in the short term, but as the loss of those good jobs forced all those people into lower paying positions, it pretty much canceled any advantage we had due to the lower priced products. The only people that ended up better off for it are the executive and management types.

You say that in this contracted environment that we need to just accept the scraps that are thrown to us. Well why doesn't that go for the executives and management? For 30 plus years labor class has seen their wages and benefits decimated, while the management class has seen the opposite. The disparity has never been so wide. I guess their jobs are sooo much more important than ours are especially when we are dealing with horrible weather, or malfunctions in flight. I bet the pax are very comforted in those times to know they have well paid management and horribly paid pilots.

 

[Tarzan]

When you get a chance, research how the upper echelon of wage earners have moved in and out of the top tier. Over the time you are talking about, the top wage earners have declined while the a greater percentage have moved for the bottom into the middle and middle has grown in size. Learn what the numbers are and you will probably be surprised that the class warfare garbage being fed to us so hacks can stay in power, is just that. Garbage.

There are plenty more places out there to read up on how mobility works and what the REAL deal is but you have dig. You are going to be in for a surprise.
http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/hp673.htm

 

[JoeMerchant]

Not flame bait but a question in all seriousness....Didn't you guys sign a new contract in early 2008 before all the industries cutbacks were announced, and the regionals were hiring like mad? The regionals were hiring at less than 500 total hours and barely 100 multi at that time. Didn't ASA actually consider paying new hires at 2nd year pay because they were so desperate for people?

In that sort of environment, you guys surely must have been able to get a vastly improved and industry leading contract, were you not? And if not...inexcusable.

Comair had an industry leading contract. ACA had an industry leading contract. Alleghany had an industry leading contract....In this business, it's better to have a "middle of the road" contract. Allthough ASA's contract is industry leading...We have some of the highest costs right now...

If the union "chest-thumpers" want to push the standard, then they will have to come up with "brand scope" and "longevity transportability" across company lines...Until then, we will all do what is best for each of us...If someone doesn't like that, then here's a quarter and you can call someone who gives a damn.....

 

[pipejockey]

When you get a chance, research how the upper echelon of wage earners have moved in and out of the top tier. Over the time you are talking about, the top wage earners have declined while the a greater percentage have moved for the bottom into the middle and middle has grown in size. Learn what the numbers are and you will probably be surprised that the class warfare garbage being fed to us so hacks can stay in power, is just that. Garbage.

There are plenty more places out there to read up on how mobility works and what the REAL deal is but you have dig. You are going to be in for a surprise.
http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/hp673.htm

But what you're leaving out is that the middle isn't what the middle used to be. The middle, 50 years ago was one wage earner taking home what it takes 2 wage earners today to equal. 50 years ago, a middle wage earner could support a family, today a middle wage earner needs another middle wage earner just to stay afloat and pay for basic necessities.

And one of the statistics in that report you provided a link for, come on! How ONLY 25% of the highest paid 1/100th of a percent of people are still in that category? Isn't that a shame, now maybe they are ONLY in the top 1 whole percent. And plenty others filled the void and then some. We are still taking about many many millions of dollars a year. Nobody desreves that kind of money...NOBODY!! I just don't buy it. There are a very small percentage of Americans living lives that we could only dream about, all off of the backs of labor. I am a reasonably educated and intelligent person with a job that many times is high pressure with an enormous amount of responsibility. And the way I have to live is entirely unacceptable. I could have saved A LOT of money, time and hardship and have become a fast food manager, or a corporate middle manager and be doing far better. Our system is broken, but too many people are kept just satisfied enough to ensure their silence. What we need are the kind of people we had in this country in the 1770's. They were people of character and vision. Unlike the swine we have in society today!