Couple Jepp Questions

[pilotlbs]

Any one know if you can decifer mountainous terrain from non-mountainous terrain on a low altitude enroute chart?
What is the difference between a shadowed navaid identification box vs. a non-shadowed one vs. no box at all?
Thanks folks.

 

[CaptETWes]

Any one know if you can decifer mountainous terrain from non-mountainous terrain on a low altitude enroute chart?
What is the difference between a shadowed navaid identification box vs. a non-shadowed one vs. no box at all?
Thanks folks.

Shadow box navaids are ones that are part of a published airway. This includes VORs and NDBs. Conversely, off-airway navaids are unboxed. Not sure what you mean by a non-shadowed box, however; someone else can answer that. I can't say that I've seen what you are referring to here.

I don't think low enroute charts specifically identify mountainous terrain. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong. I do know that the grid MORAs, minimum off-route altitudes, that are below 14,000' are green. 14,000' and higher they are red. These are one indication that high terrain exists in the area.

If you haven't already, take some time to read the introduction section included in with your Jepp order. It contains the legends for low/high enroute, SID/STAR, approach, et al. charts. That section is priceless!

 

[pilotlbs]

Shadow box navaids are ones that are part of a published airway. This includes VORs and NDBs. Conversely, off-airway navaids are unboxed. Not sure what you mean by a non-shadowed box, however; someone else can answer that. I can't say that I've seen what you are referring to here.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I've read the legend a couple times and unfortunately that's what leads to the questions sometimes. Check out Pg. 57 of the introduction, I don't know if they'll be the same. Anyhow on the right side, middle of the page is what I meant by an un-shadowed box. It says VOR (Off-Route), but in the legend I don't see something referring to that. I just see what you had said up there about non-boxed being off airway. Thanks again. Oh btw, the reason I ask about the mountainous terrain on the Enroutes is because I saw it on some gouge, but I've never known you could decifer between them or if you even can.

 

[CaptETWes]

I believe there is a separate chart altogether that identifies what the FAA calls mountainous terrain. Perhaps it's in the Enroute tabbed section. It's only one page and unfolds a bit. Anyhow, that's off the top of my head.

Good luck with your interview(s), if that's what you are studying for. You're doing exactly what I did in preparation for the 3 of mine and I learned a great deal. Take care.

 

[time builder]

The AIM has a chart marking mountainous terrain. That's what I said in my interview, and the CP accepted it. There is a more precise answer, something to do with being west of the Miss. with the exception of the Central Valley in California. I've been meaning to look that up if in case I ever interview with SkyWest.

 

[time builder]

Ok, here it is:
http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0506.html#skC334ROBE
also, part 95 gives you a textual description of designated mountanous terrain (95.13, 95.15).
I just know there's a better answer out there to describe it and look real sharp in an interview.

 

[A Squared]

There is a more precise answer, something to do with being west of the Miss. with the exception of the Central Valley in California.

So, Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska are mountainous?

 

[microbrewst]

there is no difference betweeen the shadow / non-shadow boxes.

no box = not part of an airway.

mountainous terrain = 3000ft change in 10nm OR above 5000ft MSL

 

[MauleSkinner]

So, Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska are mountainous?

Well, having tried to cross from Kansas into Missouri around the St. Joseph area with 600-ft ceilings, it sure seemed like it at the time!

Fly safe!

David

 

[time builder]

mountainous terrain = 3000ft change in 10nm OR above 5000ft MSL

That sounds familiar, where do you find that definition?

West of the miss. didn't sound right to me either, more like west of Denver.
I'm just trying to remember the answer I was given that makes you look sharp to Skywest.

 

[microbrewst]

it's in the intro to the jepp's somewhere. the only reason i remember it was because the examiner asked me that question on my atp ride. he then went into a 5 min speech on what it is and why it's important.

 

[minitour]

it's in the intro to the jepp's somewhere. the only reason i remember it was because the examiner asked me that question on my atp ride. he then went into a 5 min speech on what it is and why it's important.

If you're fat, dumb & happy above your minimum IFR altitude....why is it important? (I mean why is it important of the 3,000 in 10 or >5,000msl...not why is knowing you're in mountainous terrain important...)

-mini

 

[time builder]

If you're fat, dumb & happy above your minimum IFR altitude....why is it important? (I mean why is it important of the 3,000 in 10 or >5,000msl...not why is knowing you're in mountainous terrain important...)

-mini

For me, a big issue with mountainous terrain is abiltiy to avoid icing conditions and having to use oxygen. Icing is especially a problem in the Rocky's with minimum IFR altitudes. If you're not in designated mountainous terrain, you have more freedom to use a smaller, less equiped plane flying below the freezing level.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Doesn't anyone ever look at all that information between the update log and the enroute charts? Try looking at US-3 behind the Enroute tab. You will find a depiction of the mountainous terrain. If that is too hard, find the highest obstacle in the quadrant and check the MSA. If the MSA is 2000 feet higher than the highest obstacle than you are in mountainous terrain.

 

[minitour]

For me, a big issue with mountainous terrain is abiltiy to avoid icing conditions and having to use oxygen. Icing is especially a problem in the Rocky's with minimum IFR altitudes. If you're not in designated mountainous terrain, you have more freedom to use a smaller, less equiped plane flying below the freezing level.

I understand that, I thought he was saying the examiner was explaining why it was important to know the definition of mountainous terrain (3000' in 10 or 5k MSL).

Obviously there are probably hundreds of reasons I can think of and another few hundred I can't that make it a good idea to know when you're in mountainous terrain. I just didn't understand why knowing the definition made a difference if you're fat, dumb & happy above your minimum IFR altitude. If you're below that, I'd be wondering "is this where the terrain changes?"...things like dat.

-mini

 

[time builder]

Probably just one of those things interviewers and examiners use to see the applicants depth of knowledge. One who responds 3000 in 10 or above 5000 will look real smart, wheras those of us who refer to the map in the AIM or the MOCAs or MORAs might pass, but won't look as good.
In the examiner's case, I'd imagine he feels he has to get preachy at some point in the exam, otherwise applicant will think he can coast from there.
My CP is like that, Ex-military/FAA, DE on the side. Even our ACP dreads flying with him because he'll nit pick at you to make sure you're always striving to do better, even if you're well above standards.

 

[microbrewst]

it's "interview-ology": the study of things you will only need to know in an interview. On the line, this stuff means jack.

 

[minitour]

it's "interview-ology": the study of things you will only need to know in an interview. On the line, this stuff means jack.

ah-hah! I knew my commercial DPE made me memorize the airworthiness and registration certificates for a reason....

Guess ya never know what you're going to need to know in an interview.

-mini

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Any one know if you can decifer mountainous terrain from non-mountainous terrain on a low altitude enroute chart?

You can determine whether an area is considered as "mountainous terrain" by looking at the GRID MORA on a Jeppesen chart.

GRID MORA's 6,000' or lower indicate an area of non-mountainous terrain and a 1,000' obstacle clearance.

GRID MORA's 7,000' or higher imply mountainous terrain and a 2,000' obstacle clearance.

GRID MORA's below 14,000' are GREEN

GRID MORA's above 14,000' are RED




Amish.