Could Jumpseating ever come to an end?

[flight-crew]

This recent FAA stuff on restricting jumpseats after 9/11 has really changed the whole jumpseat system. All it would really take would be one incident involving a jumpseater (or imposter) threatening or attacking a crew, and it could potentially end all jumpseating (even within company). This would severely affect the lives of thousands and thousands of pilots and how they get to work. I know I'm not the only one who has been thinking about this since 9/11. This has also caused me to think very seriously about only working for an airline where you live at your domicile. I happen to work at an airline with the nastiest and crapiest domiciles ever. I think commuting in the cabin on passes would be very tough when loads are high.

Do you think we would ever get to a point where jumpseating no longer exists as an option to travel?

 

[habubuaza]

I don't think so. I believe that jumpseating will be somewhat back to normal as long as they figure out a way to verify the identity and employment of the pilot seeking the jumpseat. IE a 2 hour prior to allow some sort of verification. That's just my guess. I believe that the reason they are freaking out over the jumpseats is because some of the hijackers actually occupied jumpseats on some of these airliners on 9/11. 9/11 happened just months after an urgent safety memo was sent out to all the airlines regarding the theft of some American Airlines uniforms and id's from Rome. So I believe all of this combined is the reason the jumpseats are so restrictive.

 

[Bluto]

Flight Crew,
Hmmm, let's see crappiest domiciles...does your airline start with a C ? By any chance?

 

[ifly4food]

I believe that the reason they are freaking out over the jumpseats is because some of the hijackers actually occupied jumpseats on some of these airliners on 9/11.

This is another urban legend that has become fact in the media.

The hijackers may have sat in the jumpseat after taking over the plane, but they were ticketed passengers, not jumpseaters. This is a serious mistake to make, and one that is perpetuating the kind of fear among the uninformed (airline GSCs and security screeners, and the FAA) that is geting pilots harassed.

 

[yipstick]

Save-a-seat

As far as the jumpseat dilemma is concerned, I believe (but hey, that's just me) that the carriers who are truly concerned about the moral health of their employee force should reserve at least two seats in the back (1 pilot, 1 FA) for commuters. One of the reasons we selected this profession was the accompanying lifestyle (live anywhere, go anywhere).

I know, I know, the arguement is that no airline in their right mind would relinquish a fare-generating seat to a scumbag commuter just to support his/her lifstyle, but then again, isn't that part of the agreement? Besides, how often does a carrier run 100% load factors? Also, what about the concept of "must ride" when it benefits the airline?????? How about "must ride" when it benefits the crew member ( and therefore the airline)??????????

We crews have had to make enormous concessions since 9/11. Maybe the carriers should do something in return.

 

[ifly4food]

Re: Save-a-seat

As far as the jumpseat dilemma is concerned, I believe (but hey, that's just me) that the carriers who are truly concerned about the moral health of their employee force should reserve at least two seats in the back (1 pilot, 1 FA) for commuters. One of the reasons we selected this profession was the accompanying lifestyle (live anywhere, go anywhere).

I know, I know, the arguement is that no airline in their right mind would relinquish a fare-generating seat to a scumbag commuter just to support his/her lifstyle, but then again, isn't that part of the agreement? Besides, how often does a carrier run 100% load factors? Also, what about the concept of "must ride" when it benefits the airline?????? How about "must ride" when it benefits the crew member ( and therefore the airline)??????????

We crews have had to make enormous concessions since 9/11. Maybe the carriers should do something in return.

Though this sounds like a great idea, here's why it would never happen:
Our airlines don't WANT us to commute. They tolerate it because they have to (contractually).
This was discussed the other day and "Enigma" made a great point of it when he said that they don't want us to have the freedom... it's easier to control us if we can't commute (paraphrased).
My contrabution was that the airlines "own" the jumpseat, not the pilots or the unions. We only get to use it because we "bought" it with concessions during contract negotiations. To the airlines, it's never going to be in their favor to help us commute because "we choose to commute instead of living in the chosen domicile". They say it's our choice and they aren't going to spend money to support our "great" commuter lifestyle.

 

[enigma]

already happened to most of us

Offline jumpseating has already ended. At this point, the airlines are allowing us if there is a seat available in the back. In effect, we are just low priority non-revs. I hope that we never lose the ability to ride upfront on our own carrier, but unless our unions make the jumpseat a priority, we will probably loose the online privelege as well.

The companys don't like jumpseaters because the practice represents our freedom of movement, and management doesn't like "free/independent" workers. They're being short sighted when they feel that way, because our ability to move freely about the country is what makes us able to put up with the rest of their crap; but they only see jumpseating as the cause of no-shows and missed work.

The Feds don't like jumpseating because it now exposes the pitiful state of pilot identification. They ordered offline jumping shut down as a way to cover their tails in the event of another hijacking.

Therefore, I conclude that we pilots are the only ones who want to continue the practice of jumpseating. I believe that our only effective voice comes from our unions. So, I suggest that we all get active and contact ALPA/SWAPA/APA/etc, asap, and voice our support for the resumptiom of on and offline jumpseating. I have already written a short note to the ALPA magazine, and have made my views known to my LEC reps.

regards
8N

 

[enigma]

Re: Re: Save-a-seat

This was discussed the other day and "Enigma" made a great point of it when he said that they don't want us to have the freedom... it's easier to control us if we can't commute (paraphrased).

Man, if I'd known that you were online writing this at the same time I was replying; I would have saved a few precious cogent moments and let you say it for me
regards
8N

 

[Boeingman]

Enigma:

Beautifull post. You should run for ALPA President.

I am disgusted at the impotent response to date by ALPA regarding the JS and security harrassment of lfight crews.

 

[TurboS7]

All commuters should have their own private C-310 provided and paid for by the company....Realistically it is to the advantage of the airline to have the commuters. Where I work we have a very anti-commute policy which retricts us to pilot's that live in the Miami Area. Consequently we have missed out on hiring some great sticks that live in a part of the country that grows "natural pilots" like Kansas. Flying an airplane is nothing compared to driving a combine during harvest up and down those hills and terraces.

 

[flight-crew]

Someone asked where I worked. It's not Continental with a "C." It's NW Airlink. Memphis, Detroit, and Minneapolis. Right now as we speak the wx in Minneapolis is -1F with the wind chill, Detroit is in the 20s and snowing, and Memphis is probably having a drive-by shooting occurring. Have your pick.

 

[Bluto]

Hmm, that is bad. Although, I have to say, I think I'd prefer Memphis to Houston. Yikes. And Cleveland gets cold, too. Not as nice in the summer as Minneapolis. Oh yeah, and CAL has Newark. No comment necessary on that one.

 

[1900laker]

Someone asked where I worked. It's not Continental with a "C." It's NW Airlink. Memphis, Detroit, and Minneapolis. Right now as we speak the wx in Minneapolis is -1F with the wind chill, Detroit is in the 20s and snowing, and Memphis is probably having a drive-by shooting occurring. Have your pick.

Don't they call NWA bases Snowtown, Motown, and Notown..

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Cleveland doesn't rock, sEWR sucks, and you spend WAY too much time in Houston during training. I'd take Minneapolis (home), De-toilet or Memphis any day over our bases!!

 

[Bluto]

CLE-The mistake on the lake, EWR-Sewerk,...can't think of one for Houston, though...

 

[browntail]

Don't worry, the jumpseats will be back in the near future. The airlines and the FAA dillrods are working on a system for verifying crews. This system will provide instant verification of employee status. I also urge you guys to tell any FAA jumpseaters that may show up on your flight that they are not welcome!! If they think our ID's could be faked how do we know their ID's are for real.

We can have our seats back, but it's going to take every pilot standing strong against the companies and the FAA to make it happen!!!!!!

 

[Morning Wood]

Re: already happened to most of us

Offline jumpseating has already ended. At this point, the airlines are allowing us if there is a seat available in the back. In effect, we are just low priority non-revs. I hope that we never lose the ability to ride upfront on our own carrier, but unless our unions make the jumpseat a priority, we will probably loose the online privelege as well.

The companys don't like jumpseaters because the practice represents our freedom of movement, and management doesn't like "free/independent" workers. They're being short sighted when they feel that way, because our ability to move freely about the country is what makes us able to put up with the rest of their crap; but they only see jumpseating as the cause of no-shows and missed work.

The Feds don't like jumpseating because it now exposes the pitiful state of pilot identification. They ordered offline jumping shut down as a way to cover their tails in the event of another hijacking.

Therefore, I conclude that we pilots are the only ones who want to continue the practice of jumpseating. I believe that our only effective voice comes from our unions. So, I suggest that we all get active and contact ALPA/SWAPA/APA/etc, asap, and voice our support for the resumptiom of on and offline jumpseating. I have already written a short note to the ALPA magazine, and have made my views known to my LEC reps.

regards
8N

Excellent post. I could not have said any of this better.
The only thing I might add is that employees in other
departments that do not have this privilege don't like
it either. So we're doomed from all sides I'm afraid.

MW

 

[lazy8s]

New licenses coming

As Ifly4food put it: "The hijackers may have sat in the jumpseat after taking over the plane, but they were ticketed passengers, not jumpseaters"

It is an urban legend.

The FAA's concern started when the Delta crew in Rome had their ID's and uniforms stolen in Sept.

I talked to a Fed last month about this very subject and was told the FAA is looking at going to State Drivers License type Pilot licenses for us all. Also there amy be a 121 ID change coming down the pipe as well.

Anybody else have any info on that?

Lazy 8's

 

[dispatchguy]

When we restarted operations, I was on one of the first TW DC9s to leave DFW after the restart, when US Border Patrol and US Customs agents were at each checkpoint, along with the Army dudes.

I passed thru security with 2 pilots in uniform, and a customs agent asked to see all of our IDs and licenses, so he could learn what they look like.

His first reaction was - how can you tell if this is genuine (meaning licenses), this would be so easy to fake.