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Corporate or Regional?

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Skyranger777

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
Posts
89
I have several resumes out right now to both sides, corporate and regional. I have been reading post after post on this website. I want to fly for the airlines because it is and has always been something I wanted to do, plus they have bigger planes. But just about every post on the regionals thread page is just depressing on how you guys hate your jobs and companies right now. Pay isn't to great and one never knows when your company may go belly up.
On the other hand corporate makes it look like there is a future there with good earning potential but some companies tie you in with long contracts. Plus you constantly have to kiss everyones a$$. Among other things.

I know there are several differences beyond what I have mentioned. I just wanted some honest and true answers. I am 28 and ready to get my life moving forward in the right direction.

Thanks
 
No halfway decent corporate gig has training contracts. No asskissing involved. Most larger departments have F/As and Dispatchers. You fly - if thats all you want to do.

dont forget the fractionals also. From reading here about 1/2 the regional force is currently applying at Netjets.

Then again, if you want no contact, no "ass kissing to rich guys" (??) or any other BS because you arent going to take that!!.......the regionals may suit you just fine.

uniform, Ipod, backpack, and a web blog. super cool.


good luck.
 
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It depends on the company. I have done both. There are a few good regionals out there (I work for one that I'm quite happy with) and there are some bad ones (like Mesa). There are also some corporate outfits with excellent pay, QOL, benefits, etc. that will make you pinch yourself every day to make sure you aren't dreaming. There are other corporate outfits that would make Mesa look attractive. Each one has its extremes. The only thing I can recommend is that you research each company individually to make your decision, whether it be corporate or airline. Go with the one that you feel is better for yourself. You simply can't lump regional flying and corporate flying into two categories as if one is always better than the other. There are too many variables.
 
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Gulfstream 200 said:
No halfway decent corporate gig has training contracts.
That's just not true. It can be a matter of opinion if we want to get down to it. After a company pays for your move, pays your realtor (yes, the comission), closing costs, temporary housing, training, etc, having them guarentee themselves a year out of you is not out of line, and most professionals would not object to signing it. A "decent" company could easily put 100K into a pilot before he takes 1 flight with them. If you are rating a job as to whether or not it is good because they have you sign a training contract or not, well, maybe you'd like to rethink that. Most of these lagre company did not get to where they are today by leaving themselves exposed after their own initial investment.
 
A regional with a good contract is great ie. awac or aca in the day. Departure time means departure time, not waiting around for some rich dude to show whenever he feels like it. But in the regional/airline world you will fly to the same basic destinations with little variety. The airlines will probably give you more ability to adjust your schedule but you can count on working all of the holidays as long as you are junior. You can augment your meager pay by working harder and picking up open time but that will directly affect your chance to spend time with the wife and kids. I loved ACA/Indy I hate 135 charter but am leaning towards NJA instead of Airtran because of job stability, and the fact that my kids will be starting college in 6 years and I can't afford another Indy type disaster.
The choice is up to you, each has it's pros and cons, but the most important thing is to remember, once you've made that choice to make the best of it. If you are unhappy with your choice, change jobs but don't contiually beotch about it because no one wants to listen to that.
Just one opinnion
 
I won't "beotch" because there is enough of that for all of us on this site already. Right now I have a meager flying job and am sick of it being a part time gig. I have a 40 hour a week job (non-aviation related) just to pay the bills, but it barely does that. I have the hours to start junior somewhere but just need some outside opinions that will help me make up my mind. I am engaged and have a dog. I want a foundation somewhere before we get married and have kids though.
 
If you are looking at building jet time quickly and get that in so demand PIC time. Go to a regional. Pay will be $hit but you are building valuable time quickly (800-1000hrs a year), so when the upswing starts back in the industry you will be competitive at the airline you want to work for.
If you just want to fly. Be at home more, make a good living. Get a corp. job new were you live. It all depends on what you want out of aviation.
 
Skyranger777 said:
I won't "beotch" because there is enough of that for all of us on this site already. Right now I have a meager flying job and am sick of it being a part time gig. I have a 40 hour a week job (non-aviation related) just to pay the bills, but it barely does that. I have the hours to start junior somewhere but just need some outside opinions that will help me make up my mind. I am engaged and have a dog. I want a foundation somewhere before we get married and have kids though.
I did the day job thing for several years while flying jumpers and doing odd jobs to build time. If you can find a corporate job in your town, that *might* be beter for you in the long run. You just won't have a schedule. If you get a regional job, you'll have a schedule, but you won't make richard at first and you'll be like a long haul trucker that has to hitch a ride to and from work.

Does the fedex feeders fly anywhere near your town? If you can get that job, you might be close to having both worlds, schedule and reasonable pay.

Yea, it's most likely going to be a caravan, but it sure beats the hell out of deboning the chickens for a living. Plus, from what I heard, there's going to be about 300 ATR's in the feeders by 2015. Sounds like a long way off, but it'll be here soon enough.
 
Aren't requirements for Corporate a significant amount higher than regionals? Obviously it changes, but isn't the average TT around 3000 for Corporate?
 
-Xavier- said:
Aren't requirements for Corporate a significant amount higher than regionals? Obviously it changes, but isn't the average TT around 3000 for Corporate?
Depends. For more details, check out www.boosterseat.gov
 
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-Xavier- said:
Aren't requirements for Corporate a significant amount higher than regionals? Obviously it changes, but isn't the average TT around 3000 for Corporate?



Corporate hiring in many cases can be knowing the right person, or being in the right place at the right time...Having flown both corporate and regional, in my opinion it really depends on the specific company or regional you're talking about. You can find good and bad examples of either, so you really need to do a little research for either avenue. It's really hard to generalize because I've seen really good corporate flight departments and pretty lousy ones, and as you've noticed on this sight, same goes for the regionals! You might start by trying to figure out who's located in an area near where you prefer to live, and research those choices first. Good luck
 
HawkerF/O said:
That's just not true. It can be a matter of opinion if we want to get down to it. After a company pays for your move, pays your realtor (yes, the comission), closing costs, temporary housing, training, etc, having them guarentee themselves a year out of you is not out of line, and most professionals would not object to signing it. A "decent" company could easily put 100K into a pilot before he takes 1 flight with them. If you are rating a job as to whether or not it is good because they have you sign a training contract or not, well, maybe you'd like to rethink that. Most of these lagre company did not get to where they are today by leaving themselves exposed after their own initial investment.


OK. name one.

decent places dont have to guarantee your stay by a "contract". Will some leave? sure...but thats anywhere, its the cost of doing business. If they are leaving in flocks, you are broken and better fix it if you want good career people.

Aim for the places that think they are good enough to keep you by thier QOL and pay.
 
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Skyranger777 said:
I have been reading post after post on this website. I want to fly for the airlines because it is and has always been something I wanted to do, plus they have bigger planes.

I don't care how big the plane is after a while it's just another plane. I've got friends flying widebodies. One of them told me he wished he had never left the regionals. It's about a lot more than the size of the planes. Quality of life, where you live, how well the job integrates with your family life, pay, benefits, retirement, stability, and a myriad of other factors are reasons to take a job. The last thing to worry about is the size of the plane. If money is all that matters then size will play a role but you have to remember that to a large degree pay is based on revenue production. That's why a FedEx guy might pull in $22K in a month while someone else flying the same equipment makes half that.
 
Good point.

Oh and speaking of FedEx, that is my ultimate goal. I think it is an incredible company. But for the time being I just need to start aiming to build some quality PIC jet time, while also having a decent quality of life. I have been reading every reply to this thread and am taking serious consideration to what each has said, very informative.
 
Gulfstream 200,

You are missing the big picture. It's not the CP and the flight department employees that want/require you to sign the agreement, it's the company lawyers and HR folks looking out for the best interest of their company and doing their job that require this. Do most companies on the Fortune 200 that do that? No, of course not. But are there good, decent, retirement worthy places that have this requirement? You bet there is.

Of the "decent" companies I know of that want a year (one of them gets 2 years), I have friends at each of them and I am unwilling to name them for obvious reasons. Out of the 4, 3 are publically traded and 1 is held privately. Because I am not an employeee of either of them, I am not going to publically discuss their particular policies for them to see me doing so, and I know you understand that. If I come across 1 that I do not have any friend at, sure, I'll lay it out there, but at this time, I am not in that position. Rest assured, it appears that there are more of these types of agreements out there than you are aware of. And don't kid yourself, there is always an A$$HOLE in the group, and no matter how good the QOL and Pay is, there is that person who will always leave for something they might think is better.

The bottom line is that just because a company has an employee sign a agreement to stay employeed, it is not always because there is some comspiracy to keep you there so they can start abusing you with crap work conditions and furthermore, signing that agreement is not always a training agreement; retention agreement are put in place in order to ensure they don't drop 100K on getting you here with a complete moving package (as previously discussed), etc, then you bail out 4 months later and they are left holding the ball. They'd be fools not to look out for their bottom line, regardlesss of the amount to them. Do you think that is unreasonable?
Gulfstream 200 said:
OK. name one.

decent places dont have to guarantee your stay by a "contract". Will some leave? sure...but thats anywhere, its the cost of doing business. If they are leaving in flocks, you are broken and better fix it if you want good career people.

Aim for the places that think they are good enough to keep you by thier QOL and pay.
 
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HawkerF/O said:
Gulfstream 200,

You are missing the big picture. It's not the CP and the flight department employees that want/require you to sign the agreement, it's the company lawyers and HR folks looking out for the best interest of their company and doing their job that require this. Do most companies on the Fortune 200 that do that? No, of course not. But are there good, decent, retirement worthy places that have this requirement? You bet there is.

Of the "decent" companies I know of that want a year (one of them gets 2 years), I have friends at each of them and I am unwilling to name them for obvious reasons. Out of the 4, 3 are publically traded and 1 is held privately. Because I am not an employeee of either of them, I am not going to publically discuss their particular policies for them to see me doing so, and I know you understand that. If I come across 1 that I do not have any friend at, sure, I'll lay it out there, but at this time, I am not in that position. Rest assured, it appears that there are more of these types of agreements out there than you are aware of. And don't kid yourself, there is always an A$$HOLE in the group, and no matter how good the QOL and Pay is, there is that person who will always leave for something they might think is better.

The bottom line is that just because a company has an employee sign a agreement to stay employeed, it is not always because there is some comspiracy to keep you there so they can start abusing you with crap work conditions and furthermore, signing that agreement is not always a training agreement; retention agreement are put in place in order to ensure they don't drop 100K on getting you here with a complete moving package (as previously discussed), etc, then you bail out 4 months later and they are left holding the ball. They'd be fools not to look out for their bottom line, regardlesss of the amount to them. Do you think that is unreasonable?


again, name one!

nobody I know had to sign anything. Fractional and low end charter aside, I dont know a single one.

The reason many places dont go there is beacuse it raises a big red flag about the operation and lowers the quality and experience of applicant you get. It says..."is this place that bad that they have to trap you?" no thanks, I will keep looking. This is the normal thought process of high quality people.

a certain percentage of turnover? sure. Does that make the guy an a$$hole like you say? cost of business IMHO. Maybe the company WANTED him to move on. You take it personal? Like your bosses brakes? c'mon man....

Make the operation worthwhile and you dont need lameass contracts.

Im not missing any picture...


:erm:
 
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I would say that it's definitely an individual decision. I enjoyed the corporate flying I did but there were a few problems with it for my long-term goals. I wouldn't mind going back to a large corporate flight department (and hope to do so), but I feel flying at a regional is currently more beneficial to my career and lifestyle

In a small flight department, you are only going to fly 200-400 hours a year, and when you are trying to build time to get that PIC job, that's not much. Insurance drives most corporate PIC minimums. To be insurable as a PIC on a turbine aircraft, you need in the neighborhood of 3000+ hours with a majority of it multi-engine, preferably turbine SIC. While a good corporate operator will hire a low-time copillot if they see them as trainable and they have a good attitude, you are going to be in an SIC position for many years. At the regionals, you will fly 600-900 hours a year depending on the schedules you fly. A potential drawback at the regionals is that your upgrade is soley based on seniority which may or may not be a bad thing depending on your airline. I know pilots that upgraded to captain in less than 6 months when a regional airline is expanding. However, at some regionals the upgrade time is indefinite meaning there isn't any movement - again, soley based on seniorty, not anything to do with your piloting ability or personality.

Another issue is schedule - most corporate jobs can't touch the schedule you'll have at a regional, in fact many corporate jobs have NO schedule. Granted, if you're only flying 200-400 hours a year, you are most likely going to be HOME more, but you don't have much control over WHEN you'll be at home. Reserve at a regional may not be so great depending on the airline, but even the most junior lines have a contract-stipulated minimum number of days off and you have control somewhat over what trips you want to fly and that control gets better each year you are there. Larger corporate operators tend to have more of a schedule, but in a smaller flight department, you can usually bet on being "on call" most of the time, even if it's not an "official" call-out period. Remember, the reason a company or individual has a corporate aircraft is so they can go where they want, WHEN they want, and not have to bother with the airlines.

Corporate pay will usually beat regional pay ESPECIALLY starting out. It really is embarassing what regional first officers make in their first year (been there). With corporate aviation, you also have the opportunity to negotiate raises, do extra work, and be creative in how you get the job done. In a smaller flight department you can count on having to do MANY other things besides flying the airplane. Each company is different, but you may do some (or all!) of the following - maintenance tracking, cleaning the aircraft/hangar, flight planning, catering, jepp updating, running errands for the boss, etc. You may go weeks without flying, but if you're on salary, there is ALWAYS something to do at the hangar.

I personally think that corporate aviation is much more challenging on the whole than the airlines and more satisfying. Corporate aircaft have much better performance than regional airliners on the whole. Ask many pilots who have flown many types of airplanes, and they'll tell you that once the excitement of flying a larger airplane wears off, an airplane is an airplane. Once airborne, flying is flying but with the airlines at the end of your day, the airplane isn't your problem anymore. At a large corporate flight department, you'll have a maintenance department and a director of aviation, etc. but at a smaller company, you may be everything! How are you going to get that major item fixed and still keep you job? Hopefully your boss has a realistic idea of how much it costs to operate his airplane, but many times you'd be suprised!

Job security: Corporate aviation - depends on the company. What if the company is sold? Will they keep your flight department? What if the boss dies and he was the only one in the company that is pro-aviation? If you're a corporate captain, you can step in somewhere else as a captain. Regionals - will I get furloughed? A 12-year regional captain who starts with another airline is now a 1-day first officer with the new company. Will the airline be sold and will I get "stapled" to the bottom of the new airline? Point is, nothing in aviation is 100% guranteed (ALWAYS have a "Plan B"). Of course, we all fly because we enjoy it - if you don't, you'll never make it in aviation.

When you're low time, ANY job flying a jet looks good (that's part of the problem with the regionals I feel). You still have to pay your dues in this industry and many guys don't fully understand that. Many guys look at all the advertisements in the flying magazines and see the high-dollar flight schools as an easy way to a jet-job, and it may be if you have the cash. It IS harder to pound the pavement, network, and find that corporate job, since many are word-of-mouth. If you show a genuine interest (assuming you can get your foot in the door) and have a good attitude, you'd be suprised what corporate opportunities are out there if that's the route you want to take. I'm proud of my time as a corporate pilot and hope to return to that kind of flying (in the right environment). However, I am still relatively low-time, married, and hope to have children soon, so I feel that my flying for a regional fits me better currently.

Both corporate and regional flying have plusses and minuses - you just have to decide which one is better for your long-term goals and what type of flying fits your lifestyle.
 
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